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GSC props, was Brake Lines

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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

This thread seems to have morphed to GSC props.

Unfortunately, GSC was forced into mandating the 5 year limit.  IMO, that 

prop is no different than the engine that it is attached to.  It requires 

regular maintenance according to manufacturers recommendations.  Even though 

the instructions that come with it are very explicit as to care and 

maintenance, it just doesn't seem to get done in all cases.  For some 

strange reason props seem to be taken for granted.  Many years ago there was 

an incident with a list member who lost a blade, but when pictures were 

provided, it was obvious that the blade roots inside the hub area were well 

rotted and were just an accident waiting to happen.  This didn't appear to 

be the fault of the prop, but maintenance and the fact that the airplane was 

parked outside in the weather with a lot of rain.  Most of the problems with 

GSC have been from the blades turning in the hub and causing the pitch of 

the blades to change.  Again, GSC provides very explicit instructions about 

torquing so as not to crush the blade roots and to ensure there is a gap 

between the aluminum hubs.  Personally, I feel  GSC has gotten a bad and 

undeserved rap that it may never recover from.  Many years ago IVO nearly 

closed its doors for similar reasons, but seems to have recovered well. 

Right here on this list there were the IVO bashers that spent a lot of 

energy trying to destroy the company.

Personally, I had a GSC on my first Kitfox (Model 2) that performed 

perfectly and after 400+ hours when I sold it it was still like new.  Then 

again, it took some tweaking and maintenance just like the 582 did.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



Subject: RE: Re: Brake Lines

[quote] 



 Check out this from the GSC site:



 http://www.ultralightprops.com/bulletins/051799_sb.pdf



 Close to the bottom of the page TBO



 Noel



 --

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:22 am Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

All of that is true.  The factor that brought Ivo back from the brink was

their emphasis on the correct torque of their props and the fact torque

needs to be checked on regular intervals with a calibrated wrench.  They

even went so far as to not include bolts with lock wire holes in the heads

because they found most of their customers would rather miss a torque check

than cut a little lock wire.



GSC on their web site also emphasizes the importance of correct torque and

checking for the space between halves of the hub.  I did mention the problem

I had with getting the pitch set was I expect because at one time or the

other the prop was over torque.  I would set the pitch on all three blades

and go to half torque.  Then I would check the three blades for pitch and

tracking and bring the torque up to the recommended value in three steps.

When It was fully torque I would check the pitch again and would find each

blade would be at different pitches.  The tracking remained consistent.  



I switched to the Ivo only for the IFA to help me get a set of floats out of

the water and it would work on my "B" box.  Not because I thought there was

anything wrong with the GSC



When I get the installation of my 912 finished I will have a  brand new warp

drive which came with the engine.  I expect with the extra horsepower I

won't need the IFA option.  If I find I will need it I may try the GSC

mechanical hub.



Noel

 

--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

That should be a nice setup once you get flying it, Noel.  I'm sure it will 

be a big improvement and the prop should be a good match.

Having been flying behind an IFA prop for the past 9 years, I can't imagine 

ever using a fixed pitch again.  Its just that much better.   You can set 

rpm for max hp on takeoff then can dial in for best climb, cruise, or 

economy.  Why compromise if you don't have to especially when you can get 

one that will reverse pitch so you can back right up to the dock?  It's only 

money...  

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



----- Original >

 	  Quote: 	
		   When I get the installation of my 912 finished I will have a  brand new 

 warp

 drive which came with the engine.  I expect with the extra horsepower I

 won't need the IFA option.  If I find I will need it I may try the GSC

 mechanical hub.



 Noel

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines

I have tested many different props on Kitfox Alone. 

I find  that  the performance on a 2 stroke is minimal. We talking a few % . 



When I have read about these wild gains that are had I have tested personally and have not found it to be the same. I can only  conclude that is you are going from a less than optimized prop setup to an "ideal " set up prop then those wild claim may be validated.

What Deke says about GSC is true they are a decent prop. 



You will not get 10 mph cruise gains or take offs  30% less time bla  bla  bla .  on a 2 stoke on a tweaked prop set up. 



That being said , I have found that 912 series seem to gain more  with IVos than with GSC props.   



Seaplane operations,  IVO with SS tape ok,   WARP drive with Nickel leading edges are one of the most in-destrucible props out there.  In flight adjustable is of some help on a seaplane with a big attribute that you can fine the prop while taxing  on water an slowing you  down.  The ultimate is a rebersoing prop for docking .  the more complex you get , the more change of problems.  the USA guys thast fly under LSA cannot use IFA props. In Canada we can.



I have personally had a prop failure and serviced or seen personally others Depart.  These include IVO, WARP , NSI CAP  and  GSC.



Mc Bean is using the Whirlwind prop , it will be interesting how they perform over time.  they start at 4 k .  

That my thoughts,

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Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines

I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in my case  ie;  new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box,  blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated shop.  Anyways,  you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if I have to and do without something else less critical for a while. 



Ken

_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: Re: GSC props, was Brake Lines

 	  Ken Potter wrote: 	
		  I can accept the 500 hr IMO, however I still do not think that it applies in my case  ie;  new propellor, as delivered from factory in mid 90's still in box,  blades not attached to hub yet, no torque been applied and stored in a heated shop.  Anyways,  you can't put a price on safety and I'll buy a new prop if I have to and do without something else less critical for a while. 



Ken 	


Ken, Give Rick a call at GSC and get his advice.  I agree with what you say. Inside , climate controlled is likely good for wood as well as the fact if never been tightened down. 



I feel a big contributing factor to the loss of strength of a GSC prop is the user's over tightening them down   under 100 inch/pound is about 8 ft . lbs which is  really  peanuts.  



Then can fail but really they have a great track record. 



I will move this topic to a GSC thread that was just started.

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

Ken - if you need to get rid of those GCS blades I may be interested. They

are an excellent prop in my opinion and the ones on my Model 2 are probably

*way* past their replace-by date, and then some. 



Contact me at matronics(at)bob.brennan.name off-list if interested.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade GCS prop

Wrightsville Pa



--

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

Wish I'd said that.  

do not archive



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

I'll have to be extra good for Santa!



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

Did you check out the necessity with GSC?  For the reasons you gave they may

give you an ok for a couple of years.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: GSC props, was Brake Lines

Ken,

 

I had the same situation: GSC prop, delivered 1989 never installed but kept in heated garage for 15 years. I've got 150 hours on it now without a hitch (knock wood). Pitch and torque are checked annually and it has never loosened or varied in pitch. Subject to customary and prudent pre-flight inspections, I would not hesitate to fly that prop if it is as you've described

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