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MX20 vertical stripes

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

Folks,



I am about 11 hours in to my flyoff hours for my  RV6A and have found what I think is an alternator-based electrical anomaly.



When I operate my radio stack from battery power (on the ground) - everythings fine.

When I operate my radio stack from alternator power, I get single pixel wide vertical colored stripes on my MX20 display.  The stripes don't change with RPM - they just show up when I turn the unit on and annoy me.



I still need to determine if it is the B&C 60 or the B&C SD20 making the stripes appear.  I'm guessing that it's the 60 since the 20 is a backup that doesn't kick in while the 60 is running.  This should be an easy test though as I have individual control of each alternator.....



I'll verify good grounds and bonds next weekend.  I did not install any additional grounds/bonds/shielding other than what was specified in the install manual and wiring diagrams.



I'll be sending this to the Garmin tech support folks to see what they say too - but I'm fairly certain that I can get good scoop here.



Thanks,

Ralph

RV6A N822AR (at) N06 10.7hrs in to the fly-off period

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

Here's where some of that 'education and recreation' comes in....



What is meant by "across the alternator output"?  

Would one leg of the capacitor be attached to the "B" lead (fat output wire) and the other leg to ground for each of the two alternators?

Where would "another one inside the panel" go?  Power lead to the affected device and ground?



Thanks,

Ralph



--

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

At 07:42 AM 4/20/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<recapen(at)earthlink.net>



Folks,



I am about 11 hours in to my flyoff hours for my  RV6A and have 

found what I think is an alternator-based electrical anomaly.



When I operate my radio stack from battery power (on the ground) - 

everythings fine.

When I operate my radio stack from alternator power, I get single 

pixel wide vertical colored stripes on my MX20 display.  The stripes 

don't change with RPM - they just show up when I turn the unit on and annoy me.



I still need to determine if it is the B&C 60 or the B&C SD20 making 

the stripes appear.  I'm guessing that it's the 60 since the 20 is a 

backup that doesn't kick in while the 60 is running.  This should be 

an easy test though as I have individual control of each alternator.....


	


   This is a useful experiment. Let us know what you discover.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I'll verify good grounds and bonds next weekend.  I did not install 

any additional grounds/bonds/shielding other than what was specified 

in the install manual and wiring diagrams.



I'll be sending this to the Garmin tech support folks to see what 

they say too - but I'm fairly certain that I can get good scoop here.


	


   I can't imagine any anomalous operation of an

   alternator that would produce so specific a

   response on the display.



   See what the SD10/L60 experiment shows and by

   all means, touch base with Garmin.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

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rjquillin

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: KSEE

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

From the 480 group on Yahoo.  

 Nothing to suggest supply voltage issues, but at least you know you're not alone.

 YMMV



  	  Quote: 	
		  Went for a bit of flying yesterday, most all was well. It rained a bunch since I last flew and was mostly concerned about water in my fuel tanks, but I think what little I sumped out was from before I renewed the fuel cap O-rings.



 What wasn't well was the display of my MX20, which gets driven by my CNX80. There were a number (maybe ~20, probably less than 30) of vertical lines of one pixel (or pel) in width, of what I think were the primary colors. I'm originally a hardware design guy and my gut tells me this is some interconnection problem, maybe a ribbon cable, a zebra connector, or a socketed IC, that is unhappy with the general increase in moisture. But my gut has been known to be wrong.



 Is this a near-failure (the MX20 is usable, no other snafus besides the cosmetic display faults) that anyone has seen before?Happened to me as well.

 The LCD display needs to be replaced by Garmin AT.

 It cost me $600 in 2005. 	


  	  Quote: 	
		   This happened to me a number of years ago, however it started off as only one or two lines.  At the time my unit was still in its warranty period and so it did not cost anything for the repair itself, however it had to be returned to Garmin AT.  Yours seems rather dramatic due to the number of vertical lines suddenly displayed.

  

 Recently, a good friend of mine had a similar problem to what I had and this was the reply he received from Bill Parsons at Garmin AT:  

  

 That vertical line is caused by an intermittent hardware failure in the display driver circuitry.  If you want to repair the unit it will have to come back to the factory and be repaired at the flat rate for the MX20 (approx. $1000).  You may wish to let it go for now.  If so, there is no risk to additional damage to the unit.  The problem will eventually occur more frequently, with more lines on the display.  If you want to wait until it’s hard to tolerate and then have it taken care of, that would be OK.The lines came back, still not very bad. My plane is in the shop at the moment with a few squawks, including a needed electric Attitude gyro fix (RC Allen, wouldn't erect reliably, too much jitter when it did), GAMIjectors and getting a handle on the cause of an oil consumption issue. It's been cold and wet, with the plane getting snowed and rained on in the meantime. 

 

 However, the plane was tied down outside the maintenance hangar on Saturday and I did some fiddling with the MC20/CNX80; the lines were still there, no worse, no better. The fiddling that needs sharing with the group is that I removed the MX20 to give it a look over, and decided to try rapping around the periphery of the display bezel, calibrated (years of electronics engineering experience)  taps with my knuckles inwards, towards the LCD display.



 Don't try this at home without first saying "don't blame Greg if I break something" three times. My guess had been the problem is interconnects between the glass and circuit boards, "zebra" or similar elastomeric connectors.



 The result? Lines went away. This isn't proof of anything but it does deepen suspicion that it's a connection issue. $1000 to Garmin may just pay them to reseat everything and then ship it back without actually replacing any parts.. 	




 

 At 05:42 4/20/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>



 Folks,



 I am about 11 hours in to my flyoff hours for my  RV6A and have found what I think is an alternator-based electrical anomaly.



 When I operate my radio stack from battery power (on the ground) - everythings fine.

 When I operate my radio stack from alternator power, I get single pixel wide vertical colored stripes on my MX20 display.  The stripes don't change with RPM - they just show up when I turn the unit on and annoy me.



 I still need to determine if it is the B&C 60 or the B&C SD20 making the stripes appear.  I'm guessing that it's the 60 since the 20 is a backup that doesn't kick in while the 60 is running.  This should be an easy test though as I have individual control of each alternator.....



 I'll verify good grounds and bonds next weekend.  I did not install any additional grounds/bonds/shielding other than what was specified in the install manual and wiring diagrams.



 I'll be sending this to the Garmin tech support folks to see what they say too - but I'm fairly certain that I can get good scoop here.



 Thanks,

 Ralph

 RV6A N822AR (at) N06 10.7hrs in to the fly-off period[b]

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

Just got off the phone with Garmin (Apollo side).

They indicate that it is most likely connector related as indicated below.



--

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

Ralph, 

I have the same thing with an MX20. I figured it was a connector problem on  the side of the display and totally unrelated to anything else. Mine had gotten  progressively worse...more stripes, to the point that I was contemplating  upgrading to the MX200...then it went away for a couple week, then a couple  stripes came back. I still believe it is a side connector issue, but then I  don't know much of anything about it, so don't take my advice to the bank and  try to cash it. 

I'm just living with it until it gets worse. Curious. What is you hypothesis  how the stripes could be related to the regulator or other electrical  component? 

Chuck Jensen

 [quote]   --

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psamuelian(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: MX20 vertical stripes

I too, experienced the vertical stripe problem a few years ago, but  

was fortunate that the MX20 was under warranty. I was told by UPS/ 

Garmin that it was caused by moisture contamination. I am guessing  

that on battery power (on the ground) your MX20 is operating at a  

lower voltage, and the stripes are not showing up due to reduced  

backlighting of the LCD. I am almost 100% sure that the cause is  

unrelated to the alternator or other external factors. LCDs have  

hundreds of connections surrounding the edge of the glass substrate,  

and the behavior of the LCD suggests that there are 1 or more  

intermittent connections. As Greg from the 480 group on Yahoo  

discovered, smacking the LCD around a bit can fix or at least change  

the problem (for better or worse). Smacking it around is not  

recommended, because the LCD is a delicate component and can be  

permanently damaged. For those that want to attempt a repair and are  

willing to accept the possible consequences... There is usually a  

rectangular sandwich of alternating metal strips and elastomeric  

material that is used to form the connection between the glass and  

driver PCB. The ability of this sandwich to connect depends on  

cleanliness and pressure. Both must be maintained for proper  

operation. Good luck.

On a side note, there are at least 2 versions of the MX20 display. The  

original, and an improved version that has faster rendering. If you  

send it in for repair, you might get back a better product.

Phil

RV7, C177



On Apr 20, 2009, at 5:42 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Folks,



 I am about 11 hours in to my flyoff hours for my  RV6A and have  

 found what I think is an alternator-based electrical anomaly.



 When I operate my radio stack from battery power (on the ground) -  

 everythings fine.

 When I operate my radio stack from alternator power, I get single  

 pixel wide vertical colored stripes on my MX20 display.  The stripes  

 don't change with RPM - they just show up when I turn the unit on  

 and annoy me.



 I still need to determine if it is the B&C 60 or the B&C SD20 making  

 the stripes appear.  I'm guessing that it's the 60 since the 20 is a  

 backup that doesn't kick in while the 60 is running.  This should be  

 an easy test though as I have individual control of each  

 alternator.....



 I'll verify good grounds and bonds next weekend.  I did not install  

 any additional grounds/bonds/shielding other than what was specified  

 in the install manual and wiring diagrams.



 I'll be sending this to the Garmin tech support folks to see what  

 they say too - but I'm fairly certain that I can get good scoop here.



 Thanks,

 Ralph

 RV6A N822AR (at) N06 10.7hrs in to the fly-off period

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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