 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:03 am Post subject: Dumb short landing technique question |
 |
|
At 12:24 PM 4/22/09 +0100, you wrote:
| Quote: |
The advantage of this method is that you are never anywhere close to stall
speed. >>
Hi
How do you know?. If you are slipping your ASI is probably useless as the
airflow will be across the pitot. The airflow will be sideways along the
wing as well and therefore not giving as much lift as you perhaps expect.
With so little side area is it worth sideslipping anyway? In my Challenger
she would slip like a banshee and fall out of the sky, but I always kept the
speed up but with the Kolb it doesn`t seem to make mush difference.
Maybe I should do some serious measurements >The vario should work correctly
??
|
Pat,
The idea is to dirty up the plane. That is why you add flaperon and forward
slip. Adding flaperon increases both the lift and drag coefficients and
reduces stall speed. The forward slip increases drag and decreases lift.
The trick is to find the flaperon setting that gives you the highest rate of
controllable descent.
There is no way to stall the FireFly at 50 mphi unless you intentionally
stall it by jerking the stick back. In a forward slip, the airspeed
indicator will read slow so if it indicates 50 mph you are actually going
faster and so it increases the margin of safety. The important thing is to
keep the power off so that one can steepen the descent.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: Dumb short landing technique question |
|
|
At 06:34 AM 4/22/09 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Jack,
I was mostly trained in a Cessna 150 but my instructor would slap my hand if I did a slip with the flaps down. Do one or the other, but not both.
I don't have flaps in my Kolb Mark II, so that's not an option for me anyways.
If we're having an emergency, well we're probably in danger anyways so it may be worth the potential danger that the combination brings, but if it's just because our approach is off, then go around and do the right approach. May be well worth the extra gas and time it takes!
If one insists on trying it or being familiar with it in case of an emergency, then get with an instructor first and make sure you are performing it as safely as possible.
|
Cristal,
You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of
receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post
that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says
not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb
the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly.
That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close
to the ground.
I am very much apposed to very light aircraft low energy, low stabilized,
approach angle landings. If the engine coughs you can not make the field.
If you are approaching into the wind to a raised runway, the air flow off
the end of the runway will drop you into the approach if you try to land on
the end of the runway. In the summer time there is always a thermal over an
asphalt runway, which means you must fly through high sink just before
reaching the runway. A steeper approach angle and higher approach speed
gives the pilot more options due to more responsive controls and the ability
to penetrate through some of these
traps.
Lighter aircraft are more subject to the natural thermal and wind phenomena.
Heavier higher powered aircraft can penetrate better as their stall speeds
are high in relation to going on in the atmosphere. This is probably why
pilot training does not include spins. Anyone who is going to fly a very
light aircraft should be experienced with stalls and spins. The first spin
I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I
felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down. By practicing
stalls and spins in my FireFly, I found out that it complains or warns me
before the event takes place. Now I can heed the warnings and keep my self
out of an emergency.
My apologies, you struck a cord. I hate seeing good equipment rolled into a
ball. Remember when flying slow, altitude is your friend and when flying
low, speed is your friend. Fly safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Dumb short landing technique question |
|
|
| jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: |
You are absolutely correct about the training aspect, but possibility of
receiving training in my FireFly is zero. That is why in my previous post
that I state to go to altitude and practice. I suspect the 150 manual says
not to combine the slip and flap because the fuselage will blank or disturb
the air flow to the trailing wing. This is not a problem on a FireFly.
That is why altitude is important practice things before you try them close
to the ground.
|
Just FWIW,
The 150 has no advisories about slipping with flaps - it's the 172 that has the placard "avoid slips with flaps" on the panel. And the only consequence there was during the initial flight testing of the 172, some buffeting was found to sometimes occur against the elevator that could spook the pilot (I've done a max-effort slip with the flaps out in a 172, tho, and didn't experience a buffet that particular time).
Somehow, tho, this particular case somehow got extrapolated into a restriction that applies to everything with flaps that flies through the air. The "no slips with flaps" thing is now a legendary argument in general aviation and truly ugly, bloody jousts continue to be fought over the myths and legends on aviation newsgroups around the world.
But the facts as best I can determine as to the origin of the mythology of slipping with flaps are as follows:
- it all started with the placard in the 172
- slipping with flaps is NOT dangerous in the 172, can only be spooky and disconcerting.
- slipping with flaps is NOT prohibited in ALL airplanes with flaps. Many, in fact most, slip just fine with the flaps deployed (i.e. my titan slips no problem with full flaps).
So please, no slips-with-flaps fights on the kolb list. BTDT! 
LS
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
LS
Titan II SS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: Dumb short landing technique question |
|
|
| Quote: | The first spin
I did in the FireFly took my breath away, as I was not used to a pusher. I
felt like I was standing on my feet looking straight down.
(snip)
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
============================================================
|
YeeeHaaaa
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7008845811094869981
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Possum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jwdfly
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Dumb short landing technique question |
|
|
STAN!!!!!!!!
You know that there are no one, execpt possums that do that!!!!
You do not have my jacket ,I have one. JACK DANIALS!!!
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:52 am Post subject: Dumb short landing technique question |
|
|
MK111c slips fine with flaps . It is a very controlled decent ,not difficult
to do ,dumps height real good , you can point a wing tip at the point you
wish to be on the ground and go for it { well almost}, lots of fun and not
difficult .
Tony
Downunder
MK111c
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
