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Lift Reserve

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rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Bob,

It is a version of angle of attack, but with no moving parts.  Essentially

it tells you how close you are to stall.  Air speed doesn't do this.  If you

are loaded heavier, you will stall at a lower speed.  If you in an

accelerated condition, you will stall at a lower speed.  The lift reserve

has a differential pressure gauge on your panel and when the needle is in

the green, you have lots of lift.  When the needle is in the yellow, you

need to pay attention!  When the needle passes the line between the yellow

and the red, you stall  - or land if your wheels are inches above the

runway.



Google lift reserve.



I got mine from Kelly Meiste:  kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com   



It is very simple and very sensitive.  As I said, it has really changed the

way I fly.



Randy

--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Thanks Randy,



I found info at http://www.liftreserve.com/. I think I'm going to order me

one of those!



Thanks again,

bob 



--

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Randy,



I have Kelly's instrument as well, but have never used it as it came in the 

mail as I was in the hospital after my airplane was destroyed.  Can you tell 

a bit about it's performance.  I have it installed in the new project, but 

it won't fly until fall or later.



Lowell



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Do you remember how much you paid for yours, Randy?

Deke



[quote] 

 <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>



 Bob,

 It is a version of angle of attack, but with no moving parts.  Essentially

 it tells you how close you are to stall.  Air speed doesn't do this.  If 

 you

 are loaded heavier, you will stall at a lower speed.  If you in an

 accelerated condition, you will stall at a lower speed.  The lift reserve

 has a differential pressure gauge on your panel and when the needle is in

 the green, you have lots of lift.  When the needle is in the yellow, you

 need to pay attention!  When the needle passes the line between the yellow

 and the red, you stall  - or land if your wheels are inches above the

 runway.



 Google lift reserve.



 I got mine from Kelly Meiste:  kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com



 It is very simple and very sensitive.  As I said, it has really changed 

 the

 way I fly.



 Randy

 --

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Bob,

Yup, That's it!



You may want to check with Kelly.  At the time I got mine, he was selling

for about one third the price they were asking.



Randy

--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Lowell,

I am not sure what to tell you.  It works as advertised!  It is very

sensitive, yet very stable.  It takes a couple of flights to get it adjusted

correctly.  You just change the angle where it is attached to the wing.

When you hit the line between the yellow and the red, you stall.  It is that

simple.  I do appreciate the analog gauge.  The instruments that report with

lights or LEDs just can't give you as much info.



It doesn't take too long to get a lot of confidence in it.  I have it at the

top of my panel and keep half an eye on it while landing.  I have a lot of

cliffs and trees around my runway so weird air currents are common.  If I

see the reserve lift dropping, I am quick to get a little throttle in there.



The biggest thing it changed in my flying was take offs.  I used to keep the

speed above 65 indicated to be safe.  With the lift reserve, I know how much

margin I have and can fly out at absolute Vx no matter what the conditions

are.  This corrects for take off weight, density altitude, accelerated

conditions,,,...  If you ever find yourself in a dive, (I haven't - at least

thus far!) you can use this to avoid a secondary stall while pulling out.



I feel that every plane should have one.  It will make you a better pilot.



Randy



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Deke,

It was $175.  But that was a few years ago.  I actually flew my friends

Highlander with the "In Air Instruments, LLC" lift reserve.  I felt it was

not nearly as sensitive as Kelly's.



The research that I did on it back then indicated that patents have expired

on the design, so it is public domain technology.  I hope I am right on

that.



Randy



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve

I have my handy dandy, poor mans bacon saver. Made from a carbon

fiber tube with a lexan background and marked at 10,20,30 degrees

about mid red is where it stalls. Power on, power off, the wing stalls

at the same angle. The little birdie on the boom has a aluminum fin.

It's fun to fly with, and taught me a lot about the plane.



I don't fly with it any more, as I discovered that aircraft feel with my

plane is just as usefull. The plane is very friendly flying, and it gives plently

of control feel feedback.



However, it cost me $0, and one hour time to make, and the parts were

stuff from the scrap box. It works very well and I can see it in my peripheral

vision very easily.



Jeff

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Thanks - it's listed as $450 + $35 S&H. Yikes! At $175 I would have ordered

it on the spot. I will email Kelly now and post the response on the list if

I get one.



bob 



--

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve

I'll sell you the one in the picture above for half that, only $225 PLUS

I'll cover the shipping!



It's super sensitive, and requires no maintenance. It's dead accurate, 

and works in any weather conditions. PLUS it looks cool.



Regards,

Jeff

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

No picture attached Jeff... ??



Is it like my weather stick? I take my patented stick-and-string and hang it

from the roof gutter and it tells the weather - and it's always accurate.



If it's wet it's raining

If it moves it's windy

If it's white it's snowing

If it's bright it's sunny

If you can't see it it's night

And if it's gone it's a tornado! 



--

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Here is a home made Lift Reserve indicator.



http://glasairproject.com/GlasairI/docs/AirsoobLRI.pdf



Pete

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve

I have to say, I think these systems are grossly overrated. They all do the

same thing. The super simple one I made works just as well as even the

most sophisticated systems. It might not look like much, but you can see it

and it is absolutely accurate.



I'm not going to say that somebody shouldn't spend the money if they

want to, but the one I built is plenty easy to see all the way down to short

final, at which point I'm not worried about it anyway. The big advantage

was it was free to build.



I used to work on Grumman E-2C Hawkeye's in the Navy, and they

have a very sophisticated system tied into the planes air data computer,

however in the end even it did pretty much exactly what the boom on

the wing system does. 



I've flown sailplanes, and in them a simple piece of yarn on the windscreen makes a great slip indicator. So you really don't need

something all to fancy.



Jeff

napierm(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

For the DIYer:



http://www.ch601.org/resources/aoa/aoa.htm



The thing I don't like about the Dwyer indicator is that it is a small

needle movement and it doesn't fit in a standard hole.



The movement is a differential pressure gage.  Well we use one all the

time: the airspeed indicator.  So you want something that shows inches

of water column.  It turns out that a very low range airspeed indicator

is ideal for this.  You just need to take some Testers flat black paint

and cover up the instrument markings and then some red, yellow and green

paint to put the ranges on you are interested in.  Plus maybe turn the

instrument 90 deg. so the needle movement of interest is up at the top.



But an airspeed indicator is expensive, yes?



Check this one on ebay.  He has a few.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIB-2-1-4-Falcon-Metric-Airspeed-0-120-KP

H-Kilometers_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ26

439QQihZ016QQitemZ260392820130QQtcZphoto



120 kph is only 75 mph.



You can easily open just the face of this instrument with a square piece

of thin sheet steel to engage the black brass ring that holds on the

glass.

I ran the numbers for inches of water to miles per hour and got:



0.5 inches = 31.9 mph = 51.4 kph

1.0 inches = 45.1 mph = 72.6 kph

1.5 inches = 55.2 mph = 88.9 kph

2.0 inches = 63.7 mph = 102.6 kph

3.0 inches = 78.0 mph = 125.6 kph



To be sure, calibrate the meter movement by using a U tube of water

(manometer) and measure the water level difference with a ruler.  It's

very easy to do just using the pitot input.



Yes, I bought a couple at this price.  The model number is BK120-1A.  It

comes with a little sheet that shows the test data.



http://www.taihangybc.com/theng/at-004.htm



FWIW,



Mark Napier

--

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Good one Pete.  Something to do next winter.

Deke

do not archive



---

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Lift Reserve

Randy,



Below is the reply from Kelly, along with a shout-out to you.



His kit is at http://lri.kit.googlepages.com and looks really good, at the

same price you paid for it. I'll be getting one!



Thanks again for the reference Randy,



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop

Wrightsville Pa 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----

From: Kelly Meiste [mailto:kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com] 

Sent: 24 April 2009 4:41 pm

To: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

Subject: Re: Lift Reserve

Hi Bob,



Thank you for the info, glad Randy is enjoying his kit!



Here's the link to my website, not much has changed.

lri.kit.googlepages.com



Price is still the same, but I've added a few more options (black gauge

overlay, and a longer tube option).



Thanks for the interest, let me know if I can answer any more questions for

you.



Best regards,

Kelly



PS. Feel free to post anything about my kit (good OR bad).

---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: Lift Reserve

Thanks, Randy.  Even my feeble brain works that out to somewhere around 260% 

increase.  It would be interesting to hear them justify it.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert

do not archive



[quote] 

 <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>



 Deke,

 It was $175.  But that was a few years ago.  I actually flew my friends

 Highlander with the "In Air Instruments, LLC" lift reserve.  I felt it was

 not nearly as sensitive as Kelly's.



 The research that I did on it back then indicated that patents have 

 expired

 on the design, so it is public domain technology.  I hope I am right on

 that.



 Randy



 --

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Lift Reserve

Lift reserve   AOA -- Best price I seen 

http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=73



125$ US

_________________
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CDNCH701

Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: Lift Reserve

Ok here is a summary of all of the info available on Lift Reserve 

indicators on the net.  Its all there for you to sort out!!



http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID 07040300014143&catname=air&qty=

1&item 1-1623

http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/liftreserve-gaugefaces.pdf

http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage6.jpg

http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage2.jpg

http://glasairproject.com/GlasairI/docs/AirsoobLRI.pdf

http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm

http://lri.kit.googlepages.com/

http://www.liftreserve.com/



The probes could be had from John Bolding  jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net   and 

Scott at http://www.cooknwithgas.com/LRI.html

I purchased mine from John Bolding for $30!

http://www.ronleclerc.com/photos/panel/lri-guage5.jpg



http://www.pipcom.com/~cowcam/AOAr.htm



There is a lot of info to go through... the most expensive one you can buy 

is a heated unit at  http://www.liftreserve.com/  if you decide to buy one!



R.D.(Ron) Leclerc

CH701 Plans(Scrap)  Builder #7-6699

Porsche Power  Geared  Redrive

Winnipeg,  MB Canada

infow(at)mts.net

4/25/2009 11:14:29 AM

***************************************

This E-Mail scanned with AVG Anti-Virus Ver: 7.5!

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 Randy,



 Below is the reply from Kelly, along with a shout-out to you.



 His kit is at http://lri.kit.googlepages.com and looks really

 good, at the same price you paid for it. I'll be getting one!



 Thanks again for the reference Randy,



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop

 Wrightsville Pa





 ------------------------------------------------------------------

 ---------- ---- From: Kelly Meiste

 [mailto:kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com] Sent: 24 April 2009 4:41 pm To:

 matronics(at)bob.brennan.name Subject: Re: Lift Reserve





 Hi Bob,



 Thank you for the info, glad Randy is enjoying his kit!



 Here's the link to my website, not much has changed.

 lri.kit.googlepages.com



 Price is still the same, but I've added a few more options (black

 gauge overlay, and a longer tube option).



 Thanks for the interest, let me know if I can answer any more

 questions for you.



 Best regards,

 Kelly



 PS. Feel free to post anything about my kit (good OR bad).





 ---

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