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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Well it appears that I finally have a handle on my heating problems with the HKS. If you remember I put some shrouds? over the cylinders to pull and route some more air to the heads. This resulted in a reduction of about 20 to 30 degrees which was great, but the OAT was 40 degrees at the time. The weather finally warmed up to the mid to low 70's and I was back up bumping max CHT's temps with any rpm's that were significant enough to keep me clear of the sage.
The problem was that the muffler and oil cooler were mounted on top of the tube above the wing and was blocking a lot of air flow. The carbs are mounted just behind them so the air was really screwed up coming around all that crap in front of the cylinders. The oil cooler had at least half of its surface blocked by my little shorty gap seal. With all that stuff up there, and all the oil hoses running everywhere, I just cut off the gap seal even with the oil cooler.
[img]cid:C41E78E252B44FAC88E395B903512861(at)larryPC[/img]
You can see what a tortured route the air has to go through to get to the cylinder heads.
This is what it looks like with the cooler moved.
[img]cid:3F88EC68FF3B45E28453346FEF50956E(at)larryPC[/img]
You can see where the gap seal ended. With the rerouting of the oil hoses this time I made sure that they were as close to the root tube as I could get them and I added some lexan to enclose as much of that area as I could. I ended up with two pieces since I still had to allow for the muffler stand, but I got most of it covered up.
[img]cid:4054121472D74491839AF0B8AA7DEE54(at)larryPC[/img]
I had noticed when I first flew it after installing the HKS that I had lost about 5 MPH on my stall speed. (yes I do have VG's) It went from about 29-31 MPH to 36-39 MPH. I knew that I had added weight and that was what I had attributed the loss to. Well after I moved the oil cooler I took it for a test flight with the old gap seal in it. (test one thing at a time) The OAT was 71 degrees.
[img]cid:6D57019B0A2F47A99062AB6BF35EA84A(at)larryPC[/img]
This was my EIS reading at (I am guessing since my RPM's weren't working due to a loose wire) 53-5400 rpms. (top line RPM-left EGT-Right EGT. Bottom line- Oil temp-oil pressure-left CHT-Right Cht) The last time I flew over this same spot at this same OAT temp. I was bumping max CHT. I never got within 30 degrees of max with the oil cooler moved.
OK, back on the ground and I start working on the gap seal and take off again after installing it. Now the weather had changed and the wind had come up. The air was pretty bumpy with the thermals and I was getting good climb in the 6-700 FPM range. 350 was about the best I could do with the 503. I decided to do some stalls to see if there was any difference. I was back down to 31-32 MPH and my max CHT was 271. I had fixed the wire to the rpm's and found that I was actually able to fly at 4900 RPM's, which I had not been able to do before. As I say the air was bumpy and very squirrelly, so I am not going to draw any hard and fast conclusions other than CHT temps until I get a chance to test it on a calmer day. However it does appear that installing the rest of the gap seal has improved my performance significantly as well as lowering my temps.
This eases my mind significantly, as it get really hot here and with my prior set up would be limited as to when I could fly. I still only have 26 hours on the engine so when it breaks in, it may lower more still.
Larry C
Firestar II 467 hours
see you in MV- Driving!
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Larry
Do I read oil temp as 151F?
Isn't that still too high?
Russ Kinne
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com>
| Quote: |
Larry
Do I read oil temp as 151F?
Isn't that still too high?
Russ Kinne
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I can't reply for Larry C and his HKS, but just for info the minimum oil
temp on the 912 series engines is 190F. Reason: To burn off condensation
and contaminents.
My oil temp normally runs 230F and as high as 250F during long full throttle
climb outs.
Red line is 285F for 912UL.
266F for 912ULS.
john h
mkIII
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Larry,Glad to hear you have fixed your heat problems. I don't use any type of air scoop
and use the cloth gap seal that came with my kit. My oil cooler is mounted just below
the root tube.My temps are in line with what you are now finding even on a 100 degree day.
I just don't have temp problems ,cht-egt-or oil.I do like the looks of where you mounted your
oil cooler I may change mine just because it cleans up the front end so nice.
I did find that my engine started to run better at about 50 hrs , a really noticable differance.
I do fly from sea level fields, and don't know to expect when I fly from a 5000 ft field.
nothing bad I hope! see You at M.V. I will be trailering in.
You sure did post some good photos.
Frank Goodnight
Firestar 2
HKS
On May 10, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote]Well it appears that I finally have a handle on my heating problems with the HKS. If you remember I put some shrouds? over the cylinders to pull and route some more air to the heads. This resulted in a reduction of about 20 to 30 degrees which was great, but the OAT was 40 degrees at the time. The weather finally warmed up to the mid to low 70's and I was back up bumping max CHT's temps with any rpm's that were significant enough to keep me clear of the sage.
The problem was that the muffler and oil cooler were mounted on top of the tube above the wing and was blocking a lot of air flow. The carbs are mounted just behind them so the air was really screwed up coming around all that crap in front of the cylinders. The oil cooler had at least half of its surface blocked by my little shorty gap seal. With all that stuff up there, and all the oil hoses running everywhere, I just cut off the gap seal even with the oil cooler.
<DSCF0606 (2).JPG>
You can see what a tortured route the air has to go through to get to the cylinder heads.
This is what it looks like with the cooler moved.
<DSCF0663 oil cooler.jpg>
You can see where the gap seal ended. With the rerouting of the oil hoses this time I made sure that they were as close to the root tube as I could get them and I added some lexan to enclose as much of that area as I could. I ended up with two pieces since I still had to allow for the muffler stand, but I got most of it covered up.
<DSCF0669.JPG>
I had noticed when I first flew it after installing the HKS that I had lost about 5 MPH on my stall speed. (yes I do have VG's) It went from about 29-31 MPH to 36-39 MPH. I knew that I had added weight and that was what I had attributed the loss to. Well after I moved the oil cooler I took it for a test flight with the old gap seal in it. (test one thing at a time) The OAT was 71 degrees.
<DSCF0668.JPG>
This was my EIS reading at (I am guessing since my RPM's weren't working due to a loose wire) 53-5400 rpms. (top line RPM-left EGT-Right EGT. Bottom line- Oil temp-oil pressure-left CHT-Right Cht) The last time I flew over this same spot at this same OAT temp. I was bumping max CHT. I never got within 30 degrees of max with the oil cooler moved.
OK, back on the ground and I start working on the gap seal and take off again after installing it. Now the weather had changed and the wind had come up. The air was pretty bumpy with the thermals and I was getting good climb in the 6-700 FPM range. 350 was about the best I could do with the 503. I decided to do some stalls to see if there was any difference. I was back down to 31-32 MPH and my max CHT was 271. I had fixed the wire to the rpm's and found that I was actually able to fly at 4900 RPM's, which I had not been able to do before. As I say the air was bumpy and very squirrelly, so I am not going to draw any hard and fast conclusions other than CHT temps until I get a chance to test it on a calmer day. However it does appear that installing the rest of the gap seal has improved my performance significantly as well as lowering my temps.
This eases my mind significantly, as it get really hot here and with my prior set up would be limited as to when I could fly. I still only have 26 hours on the engine so when it breaks in, it may lower more still.
Larry C
Firestar II 467 hours
see you in MV- Driving!
[b]
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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Hi Russ,
The HKS ops manual says max oil temp is 230F for 5w30.
Frank Goodnight
HKS Firestar2
On May 10, 2009, at 7:53 PM, russ kinne wrote:
| Quote: |
Larry
Do I read oil temp as 151F?
Isn't that still too high?
Russ Kinne
|
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: The further adventures of HKS Firestar |
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Yes the oil temps are a bit low, but I am sure they will come up when summer gets here. I may tape the cooler until then.
We had one of those really strange days here in that the wind actually died down instead of the normal increase in wind as the day goes along.
I rolled Dart back out of the hanger and departed Crooked Creek Itl, at about 6:45 or 1845 for John Hauck, and for a change the air was nice, I was flying in a tee shirt and it felt nice. The OAT was 73 degrees. I am still having intermittent trouble with my RPM's so I flew the first part of the flight at 70 MPH,(GPS) which should have been about 5400, and the temps stayed down to about 284. I stayed low this evening since the wind was so stable. After checking the ranch next door at the pot hole field, (cows get stuck in the potholes, so I check it for them every time I fly) I headed for the Owyhee River, just following my nose. I first took a trip down Crooked Creek where it goes into a small canyon about 50 feet deep, flying just above the sage and under the rim. The turns are steep enough to be pretty exciting. Then I then had a race with a Motor cycle on the Hwy, he lost! I reaffirmed that at full throttle I can exceed max speed. Still down on the deck went through all the pinnacles and pillars at Rome checking for hawks and falcons, finding two. Next was the River Canyon. There was a bunch of rafters camped on the river at a sandy spot down in the canyon. My next job was to check the posibility of landing at one of my fishing holes. I would have to thread my way down a small canyon, make a sharp left turn, chop the power dropping onto the two track road in the sage. There is plenty of room to land and stop, but take off would entail threading my way down a deep canyon to climb out the 700 or so feet to get on the plateau. Beside having to grub out a large amount of sage to get enough room for a runway, not too sure I want to do the canyon climb on a hot summer day. Not to mention the fact that the BLM would not be happy if they caught me. My RPM's had come back up and were reading steady enough and matching closely enough with airspeed and ground speed for me to believe them. On the climb out at full throttle max CHT's was 324 and I pushed it for the full three minutes that HKS recomends as max. After I crested the plateau, I cut it back to 5360 and was showing 68 MPH.
I flew for one hour and 4 minutes and burned 2.6 gallons of fuel.
Happy at last
Larry C
[quote][b]
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