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mdella(at)GMAIL.COM
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 Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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Didn't know if this was an airplane mailing list or a gunsite mailing list 
Anyway, does anyone have experiance with winglets and the 560 Aero Commander? That is, are they worth the cost, who has the best setup/STC/whatever for justification...
I have a torn apart 560 that I'm in the process of restoring (have been for a couple of years) and am slowly working through areas that might be considered unusual for the older Aero Commanders...
Marcos
[quote][b]
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white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.c
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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If the response could also include opinions/data on the flap gap seals as well please!
Craig
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Aero Commander - Winglets...
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 9:51 AM
Didn't know if this was an airplane mailing list or a gunsite mailing list
Anyway, does anyone have experiance with winglets and the 560 Aero Commander? That is, are they worth the cost, who has the best setup/STC/whatever for justification...
I have a torn apart 560 that I'm in the process of restoring (have been for a couple of years) and am slowly working through areas that might be considered unusual for the older Aero Commanders...
Marcos
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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barry.collman(at)air-brit
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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Hi Marcos,
Of the 80 Model 560s built, I haven't traced any that have had winglets installed.
Commander Aero, in Dayton, Ohio (http://www.commander-aero.com/) have three STC's for winglets:
SA1359GL covers Models 520, 560 & 560A (All T.C. 6A1 Models) & 680, 680T, 680V, 680W, 681, 685, 690, 690A & 690B (All T.C. 2A4 Models).
SA1381GL covers Models 680E, 720, 560F, 680F, 680FL & 680FLP (All T.C. 2A4 Models).
SA1158GL covers Models 500, 500A, 500B, 500U & 500S (All T.C. 6A1 Models).
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
(Aero Commander historian)
[quote] ---
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dongirod
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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Marcos;
Sometimes this is a health list, you know, whatever gets the blood pressure raising!
I have a 560E that has winglets on it, they were on it when I purchased the airplane, so cannot give you any performance figures. They do include strobes in the wingtip and besides, I think they look especially cool.
Don
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DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpon
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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I got both done at the same time on my 500S and together they got me 10 knots extra TAS
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2009 3:00 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Aero Commander - Winglets...
If the response could also include opinions/data on the flap gap seals as well please!
Craig
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Aero Commander - Winglets...
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 9:51 AM
Didn't know if this was an airplane mailing list or a gunsite mailing list
Anyway, does anyone have experiance with winglets and the 560 Aero Commander? That is, are they worth the cost, who has the best setup/STC/whatever for justification...
I have a torn apart 560 that I'm in the process of restoring (have been for a couple of years) and am slowly working through areas that might be considered unusual for the older Aero Commanders...
Marcos
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
01234567890
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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I had both the flap gap seals and winglets done at the same time. The flap gap seals will increase your take off roll (as I remember about 150 feet). One sage told me that if the winglets were to be installed then the flap gap seals were a must as they would make up for the loss in airspeed that the winglets would cause. This seems about right. Having said this, if I had it to do over again I would have both installed because the winglets sure do improve the ramp presence of the plane. They are so cool that you almost don't notice that a large portion of the paint job is missing.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
Proud holder of The Golden Pedal Award
From: David Fitzgerald (DavidFitzgerald(at)bigpond.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:39 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Aero Commander - Winglets...
I got both done at the same time on my 500S and together they got me 10 knots extra TAS
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2009 3:00 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Aero Commander - Winglets...
If the response could also include opinions/data on the flap gap seals as well please!
Craig
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Marcos Della <mdella(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Aero Commander - Winglets...
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 9:51 AM
Didn't know if this was an airplane mailing list or a gunsite mailing list
Anyway, does anyone have experiance with winglets and the 560 Aero Commander? That is, are they worth the cost, who has the best setup/STC/whatever for justification...
I have a torn apart 560 that I'm in the process of restoring (have been for a couple of years) and am slowly working through areas that might be considered unusual for the older Aero Commanders...
Marcos | Quote: | | htt --> [url=http://forums.matro==========%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3c/font%3e%3c/b%3e%3cfont%20color=][/url] |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
01234567890
1 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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Winglets look great, but an no performance gain, maybe a very small loss. I have them on my Commander 680E and love the way they look. Gap seals on the other hand do work as advertised. The will improve the cruse about 3-5 kts. The down side is they hurt the short field performance some, noticeably. I would still install them. Even from the short (1700) fields I fly from, the airplanes work fine. What model 560 do you fly?? I am not certain that either upgrade is available on the straight 560. jb
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white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.c
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> 560F N747H. Engines and props rebuilt now. Can you say $$$! She will fly again soon.Craig
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:02:09 -0400
To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aero Commander - Winglets...
Winglets look great, but an no performance gain, maybe a very small loss. I have them on my Commander 680E and love the way they look. Gap seals on the other hand do work as advertised. The will improve the cruse about 3-5 kts. The down side is they hurt the short field performance some, noticeably. I would still install them. Even from the short (1700) fields I fly from, the airplanes work fine. What model 560 do you fly?? I am not certain that either upgrade is available on the straight 560. jb
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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mdella(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Aero Commander - Winglets... |
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Just spent some time on the phone the last few days. Turns out that the 680 winglet modification has the same setup for the 560 (and the STC covers the 560 although apparently none have ever been installed). As for the gap seals, it turns out they had a typo on the STC when it went for improvement (it had the 560A,B,F I think) but forgot to put the 560 straight. They are in the process of checking with the authorizing office to see if this was a mistake or intent (again, since no one has asked for the 560s it never came up before as far as they knew).
Just my luck eh?
Anyway, turns out that one without the other doesn't sound like a good combination so I'm waiting for then to talk to the FSDO as well to see if a 337 for the gap seals will be covered or if its going to be a long paperwork trail to do...
Apparently there is no difference between the 560 and 560A wings when it comes to the gap seals, where they mount, etc.
sigh
Marcos
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 6:02 PM, <yourtcfg(at)aol.com (yourtcfg(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]Winglets look great, but an no performance gain, maybe a very small loss. I have them on my Commander 680E and love the way they look. Gap seals on the other hand do work as advertised. The will improve the cruse about 3-5 kts. The down side is they hurt the short field performance some, noticeably. I would still install them. Even from the short (1700) fields I fly from, the airplanes work fine. What model 560 do you fly?? I am not certain that either upgrade is available on the straight 560. jb
--
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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