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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

I’m getting lonely….  

       [quote][b]

Wayne(at)lpwa.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

Sun’s out and shining in Perth, Western Australia.  Checked out my Kitlogpro web recently?  

     

Wayne Patterson  

LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP  

PO Box 398 South Perth 6951  

08 94742126  

  

       

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley

 Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2009 10:34 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Where is everyone?  

  

  

   

I’m getting lonely….   	  Quote: 	
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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Fly fly fly….  

   

I’ll check it out right away…  

       

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Patterson

 Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:44 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Where is everyone?  

  

  

   

Sun’s out and shining in Perth, Western Australia.  Checked out my Kitlogpro web recently?  

     

Wayne Patterson  

LOUGHTON PATTERSON GROUP  

PO Box 398 South Perth 6951  

08 94742126  

  

       

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley

 Sent: Wednesday, 13 May 2009 10:34 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Where is everyone?  

  

  

   

I’m getting lonely….   	  Quote: 	
		     http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution   	
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Yes, the list has been quite for some time.  I just assumed everyone  was enjoying beautiful spring weather and flying a lot.  Well that and  catching up on being gone to Sun N Fun.  Today I hope to get an oil change  done on the homebuilt, along with a head torque and valve adjustment.   Might even get one done on the Cub as well.

  

 On another subject, I have a request for all of you.  The last issue  of the Lightning newsletter (May) pretty much exhausted my Lightning photos and  articles, so if there is going to be an informative June issue, I desperately  need some inputs from you guys.  One thing I am working on is an article on  the 40 hour test program that I have been using for some time, so if you have  inputs on that, or any other Lightning related informative "stuff", now is  the time to send it in.  I do have a short follow up article by Johnny on  his "explosive" wing preventive mod, so you can look forward to that.  But  please send in anything else you want included in the June or July issues.   I assume August will be easy with Oshkosh coverage as the main topic.   Again, please send any input directly to me.  If you send it to the list, I  probably will not put it in the newsletter since it will have already been read  by everyone.

 Thanks and Blue Skies,

 Buz

  

 I 

 Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings!

  [quote][b]

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Buz:

  

 I have a couple of things that I can send you for the newsletter.

  

 - Using Rustoleum to create a nice looking panel

 - Electric cabin heat control

  

 I will send you something in the next week or so.

  

 Jim!

 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:48 AM, <N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  Yes, the list has been quite for some time.  I just assumed everyone was enjoying beautiful spring weather and flying a lot.  Well that and catching up on being gone to Sun N Fun.  Today I hope to get an oil change done on the homebuilt, along with a head torque and valve adjustment.  Might even get one done on the Cub as well.

   

 On another subject, I have a request for all of you.  The last issue of the Lightning newsletter (May) pretty much exhausted my Lightning photos and articles, so if there is going to be an informative June issue, I desperately need some inputs from you guys.  One thing I am working on is an article on the 40 hour test program that I have been using for some time, so if you have inputs on that, or any other Lightning related informative "stuff", now is the time to send it in.  I do have a short follow up article by Johnny on his "explosive" wing preventive mod, so you can look forward to that.  But please send in anything else you want included in the June or July issues.  I assume August will be easy with Oshkosh coverage as the main topic.  Again, please send any input directly to me.  If you send it to the list, I probably will not put it in the newsletter since it will have already been read by everyone.

  Thanks and Blue Skies,

 Buz

  

 I 

 

  2443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi">Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings!

  	  Quote: 	
		  



tor?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Hello Wayne

  

 I haven't been on the site lately. I've been dealing with gas tank  problems. The sealant used in the gas tanks has mostly delaminated.  Needless to say, I haven't been flying either. I'm not happy.

  

 Good to hear from someone.

  

 Gary Pennington

 Tucson, Arizona

 [quote]   ---

Wayne Lenox

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Gary 

Sorry to here you are having trouble with your tanks.  Were you using Mogas with alcohol?  What did Nick say about your tanks?  They have a sealant that they can poor into the tank and reseal, if the leak is small.  

Wayne Lenox 

N123WL



--------

N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

In a message dated 5/13/2009 10:54:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I have a couple of things that I can send you for the newsletter.

    

   - Using Rustoleum to create a nice looking panel

   - Electric cabin heat control

    

   I will send you something in the next week or  so.

	


 

 Great Jim, thanks.  Some photos will be nice also.  

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

 Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings!

  [quote][b]

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Good morning Wayne

  

 Yes, I have been using Mogas, however; Nick had assured me several times  that auto fuel with ethanol would not damage the sealant or the tanks. Being  able to use auto fuel was an important economical decision for me to build  and fly a Lightning. 

  

 Approximately fifty percent of the sealant in both tanks has delaminated. I  noticed it floating in the tanks about a month ago when refueling. I was able to  remove some of it, directly beneath the filler neck, but cannot reach the rest  of it. I have looked inside the tanks with a small mirror and flashlight. The  partially delaminated sealant is hanging from the tank walls like stalactites  and must be removed somehow before recoating. To make matters worse, thinking  ethanol could be the problem, I put a couple gallons of straight ethanol in one  of the tanks, sealed it up and turned the wing over to soak the top inside of  the tank. When checking it the next morning, I was horrified! The ethanol had  escaped from the vent tube, ran down the wing and destroyed the paint.  Yesterday, I transported the wing to my house so that I can begin sanding and  repainting. Of course, I still need to remove the old sealant and reseal  the tanks.

  

 Have a good day.

  

 Gary Pennington

 [quote]   ---

Wayne Lenox

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Gary 

This sound like major disaster to me.  They must be using some type of sealant at the factory that is not holding up to the fuel.  Is fuel leaking out of the wing?  I am not in Arizona for the summer and will not get back to my Lightning until November, but  I will  check my tanks!!  The only problem I have had with fuel is the drain.  Some times when I sump the drain for water I get some of the left over cuttings from inside the tank in the seal.  This will let it drip until cleaned out. 

Wayne Lenox 

N123WL



--------

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Hello again Wayne

  

 Oddly enough, the tanks did not leak. 

  

 I also had problems with the sump drains. The "O" rings came apart on two  of them and the circlip popped off the other. I never could find the  circlip.

  

 Have a good day.

  

 Gary

 [quote]   ---

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

I do not believe that the problem lies in the use of ethanol in the tanks. There is something else wrong with either the prep or that batch of the “kreem” Look it up it is ethanol safe has been for years and is very popular with the motorcycle world for sealing bike tanks, they run auto gas all day long. We will get to the bottom of this and find out the issue. I know of several Lightnings that use auto fuel and only auto fuel for several years.  

   

   

Nick Otterback  

Arion Aircraft, LLC  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON

 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:01 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Where is everyone?  

  

       

Hello again Wayne  

    

   

    

Oddly enough, the tanks did not leak.   

    

   

    

I also had problems with the sump drains. The "O" rings came apart on two of them and the circlip popped off the other. I never could find the circlip.  

    

   

    

Have a good day.  

    

   

    

Gary  

  [quote]    

---

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Nick

 If there was something wrong with the product or the application, will the  warrantee cover my losses, .....$100.00 so far in Acetone to remove the  nasty stuff from inside the tanks, $500.00 in paint, plugs for the tank, new  lens covers for the landing lights that I spoke to about and countless hours of  labor....not to mention down time?

  

 Gary Pennington

 [quote]   ---

Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

In a message dated 5/14/2009 7:07:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  pennington(at)q.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Nick

   If there was something wrong with the product or the application, will    the warrantee cover my losses, .....$100.00 so far in Acetone to remove    the nasty stuff from inside the tanks, $500.00 in paint, plugs for the tank,    new lens covers for the landing lights that I spoke to about and countless    hours of labor....not to mention down time?

    

   Gary Pennington

	


 

 Gary,

  

 While I feel your frustrations, I want to speak to the notion of a  warrantee.  I have some bias as a kitplane (SkyRanger) supplier who has  heard some rather unreasonable expectations from customers.   Since  the kits can cost as much as a new car, some folks think the warrantee should be  similar!!    But once a builder has a kit, there is little  control over what happens next.   

  

 First, I think there is something in your fuel besides alcohol.    There is no way ethanol is going to remove your paint, particularly  overnight.  It just isnt that strong.    If you  were burning MEK or Acetone, maybe.  I think you got a bad batch of  fuel.   Or somebody hates you at your airport!!!

  

 Second,  I would hope that Nick would NOT offer  anything!   I know that sounds harsh and makes me a bad guy, but  in cases other than outright mistakes,  it is a slippery slope for  a  supplier of possible aircraft parts to offer much of a  warrantee.    It is one thing to offer a replacement  part for one that is CLEARLY DEFECTIVE, but once it becomes an airplane, the  warrantee should be the responsibility of the Manufacturer, which is the  person on the nameplate, not the supplier of the parts.   The  supplier just has very limited control over what happens.  I am not  saying you did something wrong which caused the problem, I  am saying it is  difficult to determine cause and effect....because some of the causes may not be  known or revealed.

  

 Given the number of Lightnings flying  who are using auto fuel as well  as 100LL, and given that the same material is used in all; it is unlikely a  problem caused by the  fabrication of the tank.   It just seems  like something else is going on.

  

 Just my $.02.

  

  

 Doug Koenigsberg

  

  

  [quote][b]

sttwig(at)wabroadband.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:09 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

Gary,  

   

What kit number do you have?  It is possible that other kits manufactured near the same time as yours have the same problem.  I want to know if I and others need to be aware of the possibility of having the same problem that you have had.  Thanks for sharing a problem that could be an issue for others, too.  

   

Steve Sundquist  

Kit No. 48  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON

 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:05 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Where is everyone?  

  

       

Good morning Wayne  

    

   

    

Yes, I have been using Mogas, however; Nick had assured me several times that auto fuel with ethanol would not damage the sealant or the tanks. Being able to use auto fuel was an important economical decision for me to build and fly a Lightning.   

    

   

    

Approximately fifty percent of the sealant in both tanks has delaminated. I noticed it floating in the tanks about a month ago when refueling. I was able to remove some of it, directly beneath the filler neck, but cannot reach the rest of it. I have looked inside the tanks with a small mirror and flashlight. The partially delaminated sealant is hanging from the tank walls like stalactites and must be removed somehow before recoating. To make matters worse, thinking ethanol could be the problem, I put a couple gallons of straight ethanol in one of the tanks, sealed it up and turned the wing over to soak the top inside of the tank. When checking it the next morning, I was horrified! The ethanol had escaped from the vent tube, ran down the wing and destroyed the paint. Yesterday, I transported the wing to my house so that I can begin sanding and repainting. Of course, I still need to remove the old sealant and reseal the tanks.  

    

   

    

Have a good day.  

    

   

    

Gary Pennington  

  [quote]    

---

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Gary,  

   

I have sent the material to reseal the tanks and Greg your dealer has offered up any assistance that is needed.   

   

Nick Otterback  

Arion Aircraft, LLC  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON

 Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:05 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Where is everyone?  

  

       

Nick  

    

If there was something wrong with the product or the application, will the warrantee cover my losses, .....$100.00 so far in Acetone to remove the nasty stuff from inside the tanks, $500.00 in paint, plugs for the tank, new lens covers for the landing lights that I spoke to about and countless hours of labor....not to mention down time?  

    

   

    

Gary Pennington  

  [quote]    

---

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Doug, Doug, Doug

 I can always count on you to take a negative, "Screw the  Customer" position. You have voiced this attitude with  me before and I ignored it. I just assumed you were a major ASS! But not  this time Doug! Now you've gone to far.

  

 You are saying that the Arion Lightning Company should not be expected to  assume any responsibility what-so-ever for their product . Apparently, you  believe that a manufacturer can produce and sell faulty products to  unsuspecting customers and the customer should have no recourse when it  fails. In your opinion, if something goes wrong, it is always the customers  fault. The United States is full of people like you. But thankfully, because of  the poor economy, that is changing. Businesses like yours are filing bankruptcy  every day and you could be next. With your attitude, you should be  next! I'm surprised that Pete hasn't put Duct Tape over your mouth to  prevent you from damaging the Lightning reputation. Nick has been courteous  during this ordeal and Greg Hobbs is a very nice guy. But not you Doug! You  don't give a damn about the customer!

  

 Understand this Doug....people who purchase a Lightning aircraft, spend  upwards of $100,000.00 for a product that the Arion Lightning staff claim to be  high quality and safe. That may be chicken feed to you, but for the rest of us,  it is a great deal of money! You to have the audacity to say that we should not  expect you to be held accountable? You should be horse whipped! I will offer my  services!

  

 It must be my imagination that the sealant inside the tanks has  delaminated. I must be delusional thinking my wing is sitting there  with the paint lifted and wrinkled up. Let me remind you Douggy, I did not build  the tanks. Nor did I prep and apply the sealant. Arion Lightning did! You should  be thankful that the sealant didn't plug the fuel lines during my last flight. I  could have been killed. How do you think the NTSB would view your responsibility  in the matter Douggy? Don't think this matter is can be swept under the rug. I'm  keeping all applicable emails and I will do my part to inform potential  Lightning customers. You have pissed off the wrong guy. 

  

 One last thing, all the work I did on the plane is functioning perfectly.  Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who has seen it.

  

  

  

 NOTICE TO PROSPECTIVE LIGHTNING BUILDERS AND CURRENT  OWNERS!

 Check your fuel tanks! Especially if you are burning  auto fuel with ethanol. If there is any indication of delaminating sealant , do  not fly the plane. Your life may depend on it.

  

 Gary Pennington

  

  

  

  

 ---

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Hello Steve

 I think my kit number was around 70???? Not really sure. Good luck to  you.

  

 Fly safe.

 Gary Pennington

 [quote]   ---

Wayne Lenox

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Where is everyone?

Gary 

When did you start your Lightning?  I started in may 08 and have kit 62.  You could look at the serial # stamped on many parts. 

Wayne



--------

wampam

Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: Where is everyone?

Should be on the ID plate 

   

[b]Walt Mefford[/b] 

[b]GARMIN AT[/b] 

[b]Manufacturing Test Engineering[/b] 

[b](503) 391-3343[/b] 

walt.mefford(at)garmin.com (walt.mefford(at)garmin.com) 

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C9D55F.2312E4E0[/img] 

[b]N881WP[/b] 

    

 

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Lenox

 Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:53 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Where is everyone? 

 

  

Gary 

When did you start your Lightning?  I started in may 08 and have kit 62.  You could look at the serial # stamped on many parts. 

Wayne

 

 --------

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