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Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

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rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib

with a Fast-On Tab.  I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but

then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable.  The Tab can rotate

around the rivet, though not freely or loosely.  I'm not concerned about the

mechanical properties as much as the electrical.  Maybe a tighter connection

is required?



Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought

I'd post here and get a definitive answer.



Ralph Finch

Davis, CA

RV-9A QB-SA

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

At 06:18 PM 5/13/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib

with a Fast-On Tab.  I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but

then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable.  The Tab can rotate

around the rivet, though not freely or loosely.  I'm not concerned about the

mechanical properties as much as the electrical.  Maybe a tighter connection

is required?



Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought

I'd post here and get a definitive answer.\


	


   What you're looking for in bringing terminal and airplane

   together is a GAS TIGHT joint. This is between the terminal

   face that comes into contact with the aircraft's metallic

   surface.



   This usually means that you've applied enough force

   to DEFORM irregularities in the two surfaces and literally

   squash the materials together.  This is the same

   process described in:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/CrimpTools/crimptools.html



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf



   If you want a local grounding joint that outlasts

   the rest of the airplane use 10-32 hardware to bring

   terminal and airplane together. Brighten up the terminal

   surface that touches the airplane. Brighten up

   the airplane that touches the terminal. SMOOTH! and

   SHINY! don't scuff it up with coarse abrasives.



   Make up the joint with the a washer between

   screw head (or nut) and the opposite side of

   the terminal. Use metal locknut (MS21042-L3)

   on the screw.



   "Icing on the cake" is to coat one of the mating

   electrical conduction surfaces with thin layer

   of silicone grease before mating. Torque to

   20 in-lbs.



   THAT joint will not spin on the screw . .  in

   fact, you should tear the wire grip off the

   terminal before the rest of it moves. If you

   pop-riveted a nav light ground, it would probably

   be okay but the higher you go in current through

   the joint the more important it is to get it

   gas tight. Short of soldering/welding the joint,

   what I've described is the best we know how to

   do.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

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rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

Thanks Matt and Bob.  Once again you guys confirmed my suspicions that I

have much to learn.

RF

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

Ralph,

I used an A5 pop for securing a ring lug to ground my tanks and there 

are a few hundred providing

ground from the firewall back to the batteries without any problems. 

Perhaps a A5 would be better

than an A4, but that's it.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Ralph Finch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib

 with a Fast-On Tab.  I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but

 then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable.  The Tab can rotate

 around the rivet, though not freely or loosely.  I'm not concerned about the

 mechanical properties as much as the electrical.  Maybe a tighter connection

 is required?



 Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought

 I'd post here and get a definitive answer.



 Ralph Finch

 Davis, CA

 RV-9A QB-SA

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us
Guest

Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

I replaced two ground wires using pop rivets with solid driven rivets.  Much

tighter connection and it makes me feel better anyway.

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hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

I didn't see anything about pop rivet grounds in AC43.13-1B-Change1 doc... See Section 15 Grounding and Bonding. I used several plate nut grounds similar to that shown in Tables 11-15 and 11-16 (see attached).



Regards,

Jay



 	  rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us wrote: 	
		  I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib

with a Fast-On Tab.  I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but

then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable.  The Tab can rotate

around the rivet, though not freely or loosely.  I'm not concerned about the

mechanical properties as much as the electrical.  Maybe a tighter connection

is required?



Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought

I'd post here and get a definitive answer.



Ralph Finch

Davis, CA

RV-9A QB-SA

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: Is a pop rivet acceptable for a ground attachment?

Bob detailed out the acceptable practice documented in AC43.13-1b part 

11-190.  I kept a copy of that page handy as I wired up my first few 

grounds.



(sorry if someone already said this, I'm catching up on email)



Bill "back from some r&r" Watson

RV10

Ralph Finch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am grounding a gizmotron (Dynon pitot heater controller) to a wing rib

 with a Fast-On Tab.  I used a pop rivet to attach the Tab to the rib, but

 then it occurred to me this might not be acceptable.  The Tab can rotate

 around the rivet, though not freely or loosely.  I'm not concerned about the

 mechanical properties as much as the electrical.  Maybe a tighter connection

 is required?



 Having been wrong about almost everything electrical in the past, I thought

 I'd post here and get a definitive answer.



 Ralph Finch

 Davis, CA

 RV-9A QB-SA

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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