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Something else in the tank maybe

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8wn(at)comcast.net
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: Something else in the tank maybe

I met with Gary a few weeks ago to look at his tanks. It was a very, very  bad sight. Makes one really sad knowing what is ahead. Just a few weeks  before this I had taken pictures of Gary's aircraft. It is beautiful and  shows signs of great attention to detail. It was built by a man that takes pride  in his work. Not your average homebuilt.  I did note that Gary was using  auto gas which I also use in some of my planes till Arizona mandated all auto  fuel will have special additives to reduce the smog. I have not read the  requirement yet but started using 100LL in my planes.

  

 From my past career in aviation R&D, maintenance and as an accident  investigator in aircraft systems I have picked up two comments from Gary's  emails that I just read that set off an alarm bell for me which would guide me,  an investigator in a specific area. The aircraft has two different problems.  Delimitation of a sealant, failure of two seals. As of now, I believe  this is a problem from some type of contamination in the fuel tank. There  are two things wrong with the fuel system:    Failure in one  area, you look everywhere, in two related areas, you first look at what both  items have come into contact with.

  

 NOTE:  MY THOUGHT ARE NOTHING BUT THOUGHTS, LOOKING FOR THE PROBLEM TO  PREVENT IT FROM VISITING MY AIRCRAFT. AN INVESTIGATION HAS NOT BEEN DONE BY ME  AND THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTS THAT GARY KNOWS THAT WE DON'T.  JUST TRYING TO  HELP THE COMMUNITY. I DO NOT LIKE ASSUMPTIONS OVER INVESTIGATION BUT THINK IT  MIGHT HELP IN THIS CASE. I WOULD SEE THIS EMAIL AS A PROCEDURE TO FOLLOW,  DEFINITLY NOT A FACT FILLED REPORT.

  

                  1.    Sealant delaminated

                  2.    Seals (O Rings) came apart on the sump  drains

 Find if the problem was caused during manufacture, installation of the sump  drains, manufacture of the aircraft by builder or contaminants in the fuel or  added at fueling. Someone from Mars.

  

   This is just a thought process and can only be proven (maybe)  by physical investigation. I would really investigate all possible areas of  interest since one would not want to make repairs and then have it happen all  over again.  REMEMBER, AN INVESTIGATION IS TO PREVENT SOMETHING FROM  HAPPING AGAIN AND TO FIX THE PROBLEM. NO BLAME TO ANYONE!!!!!!

  

              A:    I know of no other case of this sealant delaminating, even  when at 20% ethanol,auto fuel, 100LL or any other fuel made for a combustion  engine. That is just me, not a good source for an investigator.  Has the  tank manufacture, or sealant, had any other cases of delamination.   Gary has the most flight time I have heard on such a new build. I have been  told by Nick he has not heard of any other failures.     Investigation at this time leads one to assume, but no solid fact, the  sealant failure is from a source external from manufacture. If some cleaner or  other chemical was left in the glass tank before the sealant was applied it  could lead to delamination. Same contaminates could damage the seals.  When  did the O ring fail, before or after the delaminating started?  Have you  removed the drain valves before? Changed the seals?  Possible failure  fault: Contamination by outside source of incompatible material.

  

              B:    Seals (O rings) came from a different source then the tank  manufacture. They are manufactured for a specific fluid and job. Synthetic  rubber is the norm with Buna-N used most for gasoline. Need to see the seal  (O ring) and try to determine material. Material is damaged in certain ways by  different types of fluids/chemicals.

 Possible failure fault: Contamination of an incompatible material; Possible  damage at installation, expired use date, any thing could make the seal damage  not related to the delamation.

  

              C:    Damage of paint: Gary, if I understand correctly the damage  to the paint came after the wings were removed, were upside down and had some  chemical in them to loosen the sealant The chemical came out the vent and  damaged the paint during the cleanup process. I think the email stated the tanks  never leaked? If so then the investigator would not take this problem into the  investigation.

  

              D:    We do not have auto fuel at the airport that Gary and I  use.  I get my fuel some place else.  I do not know how you get fuel.  Do you get you fuel from a tank, barrel or whatever? I use a 500 gallon tank,  transfer to 100 gallon tank in my truck and then pump into my aircraft.  I  use electric pumps with time/quantity changed filters on each storage  tank.  I test the fuel when delivered by the supplier for any alcohol and  percentage.  HOWEVER, Arizona is now a state that is pro additive and anti  aviation (get out and vote) so who knows what we are getting. I stopped using  auto gas when this law started.

  

 We do not know and will most likely we will never know what chemical  came into contact, if any, that MIGHT have caused this. If we could have tested  the fuel and delaminated sealant before cleanup was started we most like could  have discovered the source or ruled it out through chemical test.  We just  have to be careful.  If a person gets replacement parts from Home Depot  just know what your are doing. If you have "letters" after your name you still  must be careful, heck, your fuel tank might blow up or something strange you  have no control over.  Lets all just work together to make "it better then  last week".

  

 Gary, I happen to have a wing with the fuel tank blown out at the bottom,  lets completely open it up and make a "non static producing" power brush  that will clean all areas of the tank through the filler cap. Knowing your work  ethics,you might have done this and finished the job.  It would be nice to  see if we can remove sealant this way without a lot of chemical. I do not thing  the sealant burned off during the explosion. Call me, I'll be glad to help  any way I can, looking forward to flying off your wing when I get released  by  the Doc.                Johnny Thompson

  

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pennington(at)q.com
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:10 am Post subject: Something else in the tank maybe

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Good morning Johnny

  

 Thank you for your kind words.

  

 1. The "O" rings came apart on the sump drains after the first flight. The  manufacturer said they were probably damaged during assembly at the factory. The  "CirClip" came off the smaller sump drain that fits into the Gas Collator  sometime during the second flight. The manufacturer did not know why that  happened. He sent new drains with good "O" rings, (that he installed  personally), and I have not had further problems.

  

 2. I purchase my fuel from the Chevron Station. I pump it into a 55 gallon  barrel. The barrel has a hand crank with "Water Separating" canister  type fuel filter. It is the same set up I have used for years on my other  planes.

  

 3. You are correct....damage to the wing paint occurred after I  removed the wings. I turned the wing over with Ethanol in the tank, (thinking it  would remove the remainder of the sealant), and it escaped through the vent  tube, ran down the wing and lifted the paint.

  

 I used "Acetone" to remove the remaining sealant in the tanks. The tanks  are pretty clean. I will call Greg this morning around 8:00 and swing by to pick  up the new sealant. If everything goes well, I should have the tanks re-sealed  by the end of the week. Then I can repaint.

  

 Hope to see you this morning.

  

 Gary Pennington

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8wn(at)comcast.net
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Something else in the tank maybe

Thanks Gary.

  

 Like you, I have owned and used my supply tanks for years  to fuel my aircraft so we can eliminate the barrel as something you just got  that might have something left over in it that went into your tanks and ate  away whatever these 3 separate items have in common.  I say 3 because we  now have a third manufacture involved, the  Gas Collator.  It could be  as one said,"probably damaged at assembly". I really doubt that since other O  rings are involved.  I'll be at Gregs and would like to talk. I think  something was in the tank  at one time before fueling. We need to see the O  rings but I am sure they are in the local land fill. We can and should  inspect any other part of the fuel system that has rubber such as the hose.  Softening or swelling of the rubber indicates a non compatible  substance.   Nick, If we find indications of damage in the hose to  chemical reaction what in the carb is made from rubber and what type. I  would suspect that these are ok since the O rings went bad on the first two  flights.

  

 Gary, If you could move a little slower than the speed of  light on this repair I would like to bring a scope over that can look at every  inch of the tank and maybe into the fuel line for:  1. If it is now ready  for sealant and 2. any signs of more damage. The scope is a $25,000 item and  will do everything including go up your nose and look around or find cracks in a  25' long .5" tube. If we do this today you should still be able to finish  the sealing this week.

  

 So  far I still believe we have several different  reasons why the sealant delaminated and O rings came apart. Yes, it could  have been something during manufacture of the tanks. It could have been  something in the tank during wing assembly but do not know of what the  manufacture has other than Acetone. I would have thought that would be detected  during our build as we clean the tanks before installing the cap. If it was dry  Acetone would we detect it or would it do that?  Something used  during build could case this. I have knowledge of a lot of engine  failures caused by something done in the fuel system during build. We  just don't know. Gary, I will call a Chemical  Engineer friend that  lives in Marana and see if he will come and take a look.  

  

 Group: Any suggestions would be appreciated, decisions  would not. We may never know and damage has already been made to potential  customer as we saw in a recent email talking about two fuel tank  problems. One I assume he was talking about is my explosion.  This is  an industry wide problem. You will read in the next newsletter the fix  I made and how to correct a 1 in a million chance problem. Will the  other kits manufactures using the same fuel cap do anything, time will  tell.    

  

 Gary, you attention to detail is helping a  lot.            Johnny

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