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Stripping a Firestar wing

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

So how long does it take to strip all the fabric off the wings of a five rib Firestar? About 4 hours including removing the aileron hinges from both wings and ailerons.First the reason for the task. I had some hangar rash that needed attention and began the process of doing patches per the Poly Fiber manual. Hmmmm, shouldn't there be some evidence of Poly Brush? I mean, unless you specifically order it with no colorant, it's bright orange red. Sort of hard to miss. There was some evidence along the leading and trailing edge tubes, otherwise, nada, and truthfully, there wasn't much along the tubes, either. And silver, how about a little Poly Spray? There did appear to be some, maybe one coat, but certainly not the recommended three coats cross sprayed. Hmmmmm, again.

 Okay, there was the choice to get a couple of 5 gallon cans of MEK, strip the Poly Spray and Poly Tone down to bare fabric and start over from there. Then came the killers that sealed the deal to strip.



 First, there was one 6" long cut just behind the leading edge on the top surface of one wing. My intention was to cut a hole to remove the ragged edges of the cut and patch around the leading edge so that neither edge of the patch would face the wind stream. When my handy dandy box knife snagged the cloth near the leading edge the material virtually fell off. This was confirmed later when the decision to strip and recover was made, With a few exceptions like the root rib, the fabric was held on more by the rivets than any combination of Poly Tack and Poly Brush.

 Second, were the type and placement of reinforcing tapes. They edges of the tapes weren't pinked and, on the leading edge, they weren't there. There were tapes, but they were rotated around such that the straight edge was directly into the airstream. Per the Poly Fiber manual, tapes are applied over structure. Well, they were, sort of, about an inch or so, the rest was on the bottom fabric of the wing. On the trailing edge there didn't seem to be any tapes at all.

 

Once the fabric was off the inspection of structure began. There was a fair amount of corrosion on the leading and trailing edges and on the rib tubes of the root ribs. It's mostly on the surface, you can wipe it off with light finger pressure, but there are lots of rusted rivets.

 Did I mention there were no drain grommets on the fabric, either? Inspection patches? Fagidaboutit.

So, in conclusion, it's an old five rib Firestar, built in the early 90's and first put into service around '94. No attempt to add any corrosion protection was done to any of the wing components, no provision was made for draining condensation or inspection, and the fabric job was someone's idea of how to save a little weight at the expense of UV protection.

 Plans for restoration? Remove steel rivets in small sections and replace with SS after removing any underlying corrosion and treating with alodine. Recover per Appendix A with the Navajo Silver option to save weight but get full UV protection.

 In conclusion, the purpose of this little treatise is to give ya'll something to think about, provide a little data on the service life of these cool little birds, and maybe keep new builders from making some of the mistakes the builder of this Firestar made.

 As my friend, Steve, always said, "For a nickel more, you can go first class."

Rick

  [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Rick- You better think about re-covering the rest of it, too.  I asked the guys on the List about the steel rivets, as I had found some.  John H. said the early ones were shipped with regular rivets.  Stripping time was about the same for me, but my fabric was well glued down (both wing sets) and riveted on one, and stitched on the other.  I did have drain holes, so no corrosion other than light rust on rivet heads.  Sounds like you were very lucky to have found out now, rather than in the air.  My wings were probably built around 1986.  I don't know how long after that they changed to  SS rivets.  Good luck.

  

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                             FS 447 (wing covering starting soon- 5 rib type) 

 [quote][b]

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Oh yeah, no plans to stop at this point. It wood look strange with different color wings and tail. There are other things that need to be fixed, too. Struts put together with pop rivets only, minor things like that. She'll be a new bird when I'm done. 



Rick



On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:18 PM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Rick- You better think about re-covering the rest of it, too.  I asked the guys on the List about the steel rivets, as I had found some.  John H. said the early ones were shipped with regular rivets.  Stripping time was about the same for me, but my fabric was well glued down (both wing sets) and riveted on one, and stitched on the other.  I did have drain holes, so no corrosion other than light rust on rivet heads.  Sounds like you were very lucky to have found out now, rather than in the air.  My wings were probably built around 1986.  I don't know how long after that they changed to  SS rivets.  Good luck.

   

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                             FS 447 (wing covering starting soon- 5 rib type) 

 ==== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  [/b] 	
[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Rick- My original struts were the old pop rivet style.  The crash snapped one through the middle portion of the tube, and bent a steel end on the other.  No rivet failure.  Mine had all rivet heads sealed with silicone or something.  I understand the new style is bolted together, and I am going to order some.  Right now I have a set of streamlined steel ones- over 9 pounds for the pair.  Way too heavy.

  

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                   FS 447

 [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Stripping a Firestar wing

I would most defiantly recover the tail while you are at it.  The tail section of a Kolb take a huge beating from the prop.  The fabric on my tail surfaces is more stressed than the fabric on the wings on my MK III with 100 HP due to prop blast.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Mike

You would recover the tail DEFIANTLY??

That do seem odd --

On May 22, 2009, at 3:30 PM, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I would most defiantly recover the tail while you are at it.  The  

 tail section of a Kolb take a huge beating from the prop.  The  

 fabric on my tail surfaces is more stressed than the fabric on the  

 wings on my MK III with 100 HP due to prop blast.



 Mike



 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast  

 as you could have !!!



 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 44996#244996

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Before everyone chimes in, I just haven't gotten that far in the project. I just wanted to get my thoughts down while they were fresh. And before anyone wants to remind to recover the fuselage, yes, I'll do that, too.  



Rick



On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:56 PM, russ kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com (russ(at)rkiphoto.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russ(at)rkiphoto.com (russ(at)rkiphoto.com)>

 

 Mike

 You would recover the tail DEFIANTLY??

 That do seem odd --

 

 

 On May 22, 2009, at 3:30 PM, JetPilot wrote:

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>

 

 I would most defiantly recover the tail while you are at it.  The tail section of a Kolb take a huge beating from the prop.  The fabric on my tail surfaces is more stressed than the fabric on the wings on my MK III with 100 HP due to prop blast.

  

 Mike

 

 --------



 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 

 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244996#244996

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

	


 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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 le, List Admin.

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[b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

At 12:35 PM 5/22/2009, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  ....Recover per Appendix A with the Navajo Silver option to save weight 

but get full UV protection.


	


Can you elaborate on that?



-Dana

--

  Does fuzzy logic tickle?

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Dana- The Poly Fiber instruction book, Appendix "A", says that both Navajo Silver and Piper Trainer Blue contain full UV protection right in the paint.  The Poly Spray stage of the covering process can be skipped.  I have both manuals, and they confirm what Rick said.

  

                                                      Bill Sullivan

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                      FS 447

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

At 07:44 PM 5/26/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dana- The Poly Fiber instruction book, Appendix "A", says that both Navajo 

Silver and Piper Trainer Blue contain full UV protection right in the 

paint.  The Poly Spray stage of the covering process can be skipped.


	


Interesting, I didn't know that!  Hmmm, I may have to rethink my favorite 

colors for airplanes...



-Dana



--

  A day without sunshine is like, night.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Stripping a Firestar wing

Dana- I was slightly mistaken about the colors.  Poly tone 220M Nevada Silver; Poly Tone 222M Rancho Silver; and Poly Tone 318M Piper Trainer Blue are the colors containing full UV protection.  They estimate a 10 to 11 pound weight saving on an ultralight, with no loss of protection.  Very interesting reading.  I got my copies from Jim and Dondi Miller at Aircraft Technical Support.

  

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct

                                             FS 447 (probably going to be Piper Trainer Blue)

 [quote][b]

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