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Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

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jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

Was there any primer used, or the HS35 is a topcoat that was applied directly to the etched metal? I'm just trying to understand the whole picture. Normally a gloss topcoat requires a flat primer over any substrate to bond properly.



--- On Mon, 5/18/09, Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>

Subject: Zenith601-List: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:14 AM



--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Thruster87" <[url=/mc/compose?to=alania(at)optusnet.com.au]alania(at)optusnet.com.au[/url]>



Looks like Valspar   HS35  two pack acrylic paint doesn't stick at all on to Prekote treated 6061-T6.Just did the wings and the bloody paint peeled off in sheets.All the other bits I alodined and no problems with the Vaspar HS35  paint.It appears that some of the two packs don't like water based etching agents so prior to painting your aircraft do a sample piece first to see how well it  adheres.Cheers





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Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

The Valspar HS35 two pack acrylic paint is the primer and if the topcoat  [two part as well]is applied after 1/2hr and before 2hrs it does not require sanding as the primer is still tacky [chemically]. This method is great for surfaces with protruding rivet heads.The only conclusion I have come up with, is the temp was only 20 deg C and there may have been moisture in the air line????? Cheers

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jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

This is from the HS35 data sheet.



5. SURFACE PREPARATION

• Surfaces should be prepared using the proper undercoat system following recommended procedures.

• Sanding grits coarser than 220P grit should be finish sanded with finer grit prior to application.

• Clean surface with Aqua Clean 170.



6. SUBSTRATES

• Properly prepared previously painted surfaces

• Properly prepared OEM finishes

• VP50 Epoxy Primer

• DTM2004 Primer

• CPS Series Primers and Sealers



It look like HS35 is not intended for application on bare metal.

--- On Thu, 5/21/09, Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> wrote:

[quote]

From: Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>

Subject: Re: Paint  Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 11:40 PM



--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Thruster87" <[url=/mc/compose?to=alania(at)optusnet.com.au]alania(at)optusnet.com.au[/url]>



The Valspar HS35 two pack acrylic paint is the primer and if the topcoat  [two part as well]is applied after 1/2hr and before 2hrs it does not require sanding as the primer is still tacky [chemically]. This method is great for surfaces with protruding rivet heads.The only conclusion I have come up with, is the temp was only 20 deg C and there may have been moisture in the air line????? Cheers





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Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

That is correct Valspar HS35 is NOT a etch primer that is why you need to use an etching agent like Alodine or  an etch primer.I used Prekote which [i]is a proprietary and revolutionary formula, PreKote® Surface Pretreatment is a non-chromated metal preparation chemical utilizing a safe, hazard-free process. PreKote® offers off-the-chart adhesion, improved paint flexibility, and superior corrosion protection on painted surfaces. PreKote® has passed stringent testing by the U.S. Department of Defense, the Boeing Company and other coating industry leaders. By eliminating the need for chromate conversion coatings, acid etches, solvent washes and other toxic processes, PreKote® can reduce paint preparation time and costs by up to 40% [/i]achieving results superior to hazardous processes and products. BUT IT DID NOT WORK so well on my wings ????

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jimandmandy(at)yahoo.com
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

I dont want this to grow into an argument, but for the benefit of others, Valspar documentation does not approve HS35, listed as a sealer and surfacer, for use on bare metal, even if cleaned and etched. It looks like it is primarily intended for sealing and filling scratches in old paint for refinish jobs. Ive used Dupont surfacers in automotive work so I have some experience with that type of product. 



As far as I know, Boeing uses epoxy, not polyurethane primers, and, according to Valspar literature, epoxy is approved for use on bare metal.



http://www.valsparrefinish.com/refinish/pdf/UNDERSTANDING_UNDERCOATS.pdf



--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Thruster87 <alania(at)optusnet.com.au> wrote:

[quote]

From: Thruster87  <alania(at)optusnet.com.au>

Subject: Re: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 2:54 PM



--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Thruster87" <[url=/mc/compose?to=alania(at)optusnet.com.au]alania(at)optusnet.com.au[/url]>



That is correct Valspar HS35 is NOT a etch primer that is why your need to use an etching agent like Alodine or  an etch primer.I used Prokote which is a proprietary and revolutionary formula, PreKote® Surface Pretreatment is a non-chromated metal preparation chemical utilizing a safe, hazard-free process. PreKote® offers off-the-chart adhesion, improved paint flexibility, and superior corrosion protection on painted surfaces. PreKote® has passed stringent testing by the U.S. Department of Defense, the Boeing Company and other coating  industry leaders. By eliminating the need for chromate conversion coatings, acid etches, solvent washes and other toxic processes, PreKote® can reduce paint preparation time and costs by up to 40% achieving results superior to hazardous processes and products. BUT IT DID NOT WORK so well on my wings ????





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Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Peeled of after using Prekote as etching agent

Looks like a trip to the paint suppliers  to have a bit of a discussion on why they recommended the HS35 ???? DTM2004 is what they should have recommended.Just goes to show you can't even rely on the so called experts. Cheers

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