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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: Dougs response to Gary. |
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Gary,
I dont think I communicated very well. Please let me try again.
1) I am saying that it is POSSIBLE that a substance that should not be introduced to aircraft-type fuel tanks may have gotten in your tanks somehow. It is not uncommon to have contamination problems with auto fuel. It is manufactured and stored to a much lower standard that aircraft fuel. I dont remember if it was just one of your tanks or both. If that occurred it is not a warrantee claim, in my opinion.
2) I am saying that if a part HAS BEEN DETERMINED to have been defective, then it is reasonable for the manufacturer to replace it, of course. But there should be some burden of proof. We live in a country of over-reactive people, witness the recent hysteria over "swine flu". It sounds like in this case Nick is offering a free "fix", which sounds good to me.
3) The slippery slope begins when a parts supplier is asked to pay for a paint job, labor to replace the part, possibly a rental aircraft, or any other "result" of a parts failure. It is my opinion that since they sold parts, not a completed airplane, it is an unreasonable request in the world of Homebuilts. It is part of the reason kits are sold at a greatly reduced price over a completely constructed aircraft.
4) The sloshing sealant that I believe is used has been around a long time. It is probably available in a "speed shop" near you. It has no history of delaminating from any type of alcohol. That also is a clue that something other than alcohol has entered your tank(s). It could be as simple as someone washing the tanks out with "reducer" left over from painting, to "get them really clean". The fumes from acetone or enamel reducer could have broken down a thin spot in the slosh, then gone to work on the bond between sealer and tank. It could have been aided by some contamination from the auto fuel. I really dont know the chemistry exactly, but my point is that it may be possible.
You wrote that the sealant has delaminated and the paint has bubbled. Neither should have occurred just from gasoline. Something else is present....at least to my way of thinking.
I really dont mind the rest of what you wrote about me. I probably deserve a good dose of it. I do empathize with your situation. I would not want to trade places with you and be standing in your hangar looking at a messed up airplane. It appeared you had done a great job building it and you have flown it a great deal....with a lot of pleasure. I am truly sorry for your situation. It is every builder's nightmare! I also should not have said that Nick should not give you ANYTHING! I meant to say anything other than just the fix or a replacement part. Again, that was my bad communication.
I also agree with your warning. The use of auto fuel these days can be risky business. AND it is important to keep checking fuel systems, including filters, screens, gascolator and carb bowl.
Best wishes,
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 5/15/2009 3:22:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pennington(at)q.com writes:
[quote] Doug, Doug, Doug
I can always count on you to take a negative, "Screw the Customer" position. You have voiced this attitude with me before and I ignored it. I just assumed you were a major ASS! But not this time Doug! Now you've gone to far.
You are saying that the Arion Lightning Company should not be expected to assume any responsibility what-so-ever for their product . Apparently, you believe that a manufacturer can produce and sell faulty products to unsuspecting customers and the customer should have no recourse when it fails. In your opinion, if something goes wrong, it is always the customers fault. The United States is full of people like you. But thankfully, because of the poor economy, that is changing. Businesses like yours are filing bankruptcy every day and you could be next. With your attitude, you should be next! I'm surprised that Pete hasn't put Duct Tape over your mouth to prevent you from damaging the Lightning reputation. Nick has been courteous during this ordeal and Greg Hobbs is a very nice guy. But not you Doug! You don't give a damn about the customer!
Understand this Doug....people who purchase a Lightning aircraft, spend upwards of $100,000.00 for a product that the Arion Lightning staff claim to be high quality and safe. That may be chicken feed to you, but for the rest of us, it is a great deal of money! You to have the audacity to say that we should not expect you to be held accountable? You should be horse whipped! I will offer my services!
It must be my imagination that the sealant inside the tanks has delaminated. I must be delusional thinking my wing is sitting there with the paint lifted and wrinkled up. Let me remind you Douggy, I did not build the tanks. Nor did I prep and apply the sealant. Arion Lightning did! You should be thankful that the sealant didn't plug the fuel lines during my last flight. I could have been killed. How do you think the NTSB would view your responsibility in the matter Douggy? Don't think this matter is can be swept under the rug. I'm keeping all applicable emails and I will do my part to inform potential Lightning customers. You have pissed off the wrong guy.
One last thing, all the work I did on the plane is functioning perfectly. Don't take my word for it. Ask anyone who has seen it.
NOTICE TO PROSPECTIVE LIGHTNING BUILDERS AND CURRENT OWNERS!
Check your fuel tanks! Especially if you are burning auto fuel with ethanol. If there is any indication of delaminating sealant , do not fly the plane. Your life may depend on it.
Gary Pennington
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pennington(at)q.com
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Dougs response to Gary. |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Doug
I think you communicated your position quite well.
Answers to your comments:
1. I suppose it is possible that Chevron mixed some mysterious chemical in their fuel that only I purchased for my Lightning. I couldn't rule out the possibility that an alien from outer space visited and contaminated my tanks. Not very likely though! My Lightning is always locked up in a hanger!
No, it is far more likely that your tank builder had a bad day and failed to adequately prep the tanks. But then, you wouldn't admit to that.
2. The Lightning builder in Marana, Arizona said it is probably caused by ethanol. Other pilots who have inspected the tanks have said it was poor preparation. Nick also believes it was poor prep. That being the case, where's my replacement wings?
By the way, Nick is not offering a "free fix" in any way, shape or form! So far, the only warrantee remedy is two cans of sealant and I don't even have that yet! If someone told you that Arion Lightning is fixing my plane for free, they are a liar! Did someone really tell you that, or, did you just make it up?
3. Arion Lightning has not offered to reimburse me for anything. None of this would have happened if your product was top quality as advertised.
4. Bulllshit!
Gary Pennington
[quote] ---
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Dougs response to Gary. |
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I have offered to fix the material that is in question even though we have not yet determined what has caused the sealant to delaminate. I have sent enough sealant material to your dealer in AZ, whom is only a short drive away and will be helping you with the fix, so the most logical person to send it to. He awaits a call from you to come out and help. I am not charging you for the sealant, Greg is not charging you shop fee’s or labor for any help you may need. We have offered to fix what is in question and provide the help to do so. I have offered all available resources to get your tanks fixed.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY PENNINGTON
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:12 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Dougs response to Gary.
Doug
I think you communicated [i]your [/i]position quite well.
Answers to your comments:
1. I suppose it is possible that Chevron mixed some mysterious chemical in their fuel that [b]only I purchased [/b]for my Lightning. I couldn't rule out the possibility that an alien from outer space visited and contaminated my tanks. Not very likely though! My Lightning is [b]always [/b]locked up in a hanger!
No, it is far more likely that your tank builder had a bad day and failed to adequately prep the tanks. But then, you wouldn't admit to that.
2. The Lightning builder in Marana, Arizona said it is probably caused by ethanol. Other pilots who have inspected the tanks have said it was poor preparation. Nick also believes it was poor prep. That being the case, where's my replacement wings?
By the way, [b]Nick is not offering a[/b] "[b]free fix[/b]" [b]in any way, shape or form[/b]! So far, the only warrantee remedy is two cans of sealant and I don't even have that yet! If someone told you that Arion Lightning is fixing my plane for free, they are a liar! Did someone really tell you that, or, did you just make it up?
3. Arion Lightning has not offered to reimburse me for anything. None of this would have happened if your product was top quality as advertised.
4. Bulllshit!
Gary Pennington
[quote]
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