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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Noel [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 I know one commercial helicopter pilot who flew for years after bypass

 surgery.  


	


So do I, here in Norway, Noel. The problem is: They don't want to come forward with names and especially not, the name of the doctor who gave them the papers for the license. There is a strong lobby here, to ask no more than the driving license medical for ultralights, as it is for you and the Sport Pilot license. But ... administration in a socialist country is like a black hole, it absorbs everything, even the visible light, and ... it's for ever! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Isn't heart disease the current number one killer in The United States and  many other countries?  With all that the medical profession now knows about  this disease, I would think that a pilot with known heart disease status and is  medically managed is a much better risk than a pilot who is undiagnosed at all  and therefore an unknown risk.  No news is sometimes very bad news.

  

 I know from personal experience that heart disease can progress for years  without any noticeable indication to the patient or his doctor.  --Unless  the doctor is actually looking and looking very carefully for it!

  

 We lost Jeff Puls (pulsair(at)mindspring.com (pulsair(at)mindspring.com)) a list member  and personal friend of mine this year.  Jeff was just 57 years old and I  suspect undiagnosed and perhaps he was personally unaware of his heart disease  status.  The grape vine talk is that he suffered a major fatal heart attack  while at work at his desk.  Another grape vine piece of information is that  he was just pronounced airworthy by his doctor in January.

  

 Heart disease is very sneaky.  From what I have learned and  experienced, there are few if any indicators for the average person in average  daily activities.  I was lucky enough to feel a sensation in my chest while  running at full throttle one day.  A partially blocked coronary artery was  giving me the sensation of a cramp in my lower left chest that felt no more  urgent than the need to belch some air out of my stomach.  I could cause  the feeling to return with heavy exercise and it would always go away just  as soon as I throttled back and rested for 2-3 minutes.  It took my wife's  oversight to get me to explore it further.  I am a careful person and yet  this symptom seemed too benign to worry me.

  

 The docs found the blockage and opened it up with angioplasty and it has  stayed open for 16 years now.  I am required to jump through extra hoops  for the FAA now to prove my flight worthy status.  My vote is that it is  better to understand and know the risks rather than to stick our heads in the  sand.

  

 Michael I wish you well.  You are certainly one of the most passionate  aviators I have encountered in my life.  A flight with you would be a true  flight into the heavens regardless of who has to be PIC on the manifest.

  

 John

  

 John P. Marzluf

 Columbus, Ohio

 Outback (out back in the garage)  

  

  In a message dated 5/21/2009 3:09:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  michel(at)online.no writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  >    From: Noel [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 	  Quote: 	
		   I know one commercial helicopter    pilot who flew for years after bypass

 surgery.  


	


So do I,    here in Norway, Noel. The problem is: They don't want to come forward with    names and especially not, the name of the doctor who gave them the papers for    the license. There is a strong lobby here, to ask no more than the driving    license medical for ultralights, as it is for you and the Sport Pilot license.    But ... administration in a socialist country is like a black hole, it absorbs    everything, even the visible light, and ... it's for ever!    



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru    2200



Do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.mat=============================================== 	
	


 <?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215073686%3B37034322%3Bb>Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!

  [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com  

 Michael I wish you well.  You are certainly one of the most passionate  

 aviators I have encountered in my life.


	


Thank you for your kind words, John. Yes, thanks to modern medicine, the chances are that we will die from either cancer or heart failure.

In my case, they gave me an Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator so, even if my heart stop, it will be defibrillated up to six consecutive times.



This is actually my key argument when meeting my doctor: If I can drive a car, why can't I fly a plane? Because being defibrillate (being described as a horse kick in the chest) while driving would surely put me out of the road. While, in a Kiftox ... there is only air around me.



Correct me if I am wrong but pilots doing aerobatics do sometimes loose consciousness due to excessive Gs, don't they? And without anyone noticeing because, once you let the controls go, the plane flies pretty much straight for a while, isn't it?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Michel:

  

 I know that legally your son is your PIC.  For sure, that does not mean that you don't fly the plane.  In practice, he is your safety pilot.  I wonder if either you or him are comfortable flying the plane from the right seat.

  

 First time I took the controls, my father was the PIC and I was just 9...I was too short to see over the dash of the Cessna 206...sweet memories 

  

 Best wishes mi amigo,

  

 José



 

   From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:18:04 PM

Subject: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com (KITFOXZ(at)aol.com)  

 Michael I wish you well.  You are certainly one of the most passionate  

 aviators I have encountered in my life.


	


Thank you for your kind words, John. Yes, thanks to modern medicine, the chances are that we will die from either cancer or heart failure.

In my case, they gave me an Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator so, even if my heart stop, it will be defibrillated up to six consecutive times.



This is actually my key argument when meeting my doctor:  If I can drive a car, why can't I fly a plane? Because being defibrillate (being described as a horse kick in the chest) while driving would surely put me out of the road. While, in a Kiftox ... there is only air around me.



Correct me if I am wrong but pilots doing aerobatics do sometimes loose consciousness due to excessive Gs, don't they? And without anyone noticeing because, once you let the controls go, the plane flies pretty much straight for a while, isn't it?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



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           [quote][b]

rexinator

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 33

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Nice try Michel.

 I think generally any aerobatic PIC will release the pressure that 

produces the G force before losing full consciousness. Mostly because 

they want to experience the maneuver instead of sleeping through it, but 

also, obviously, because you will automatically relax as you lose 

consciousness. In those conditions you experience the onset of a 

"Blackout" by first the induced loss of vision "Grayout" or "Redout" 

while still remaining alert. This means you are aware, have warning and 

can avoid loss of consciousness by controlling the G force. If you 

intend to try to sustain enough G force to experience a Blackout it 

would likely be brief if you alone were in control.

  Hopefully that pilot will have enough altitude and the aircraft will 

have enough control to recover before unintentional contact with the 

ground. 



 Anyway, the aerobatics argument probably will not help you.



Rex



Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Correct me if I am wrong but pilots doing aerobatics do sometimes loose consciousness due to excessive Gs, don't they? And without anyone noticeing because, once you let the controls go, the plane flies pretty much straight for a while, isn't it?



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



 Do not archive

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Jose  

   

You bring up an interesting point and i would llike to see what others think about flying form the right seat.  I flew the right seat years ago with an instructor.  At that time I didn’t think it was too difficult.  In the past I’ve also driven RHD cars on the right side of the road with no problems ( standard four speed)  but as we are all aware running a car at 40 mph and taxiing at 40mph in a small plane are not even close to being the same.  

   

Like yourself I was about 12 the first time it took the controls...  my father was PIC.  At 13 I did a compressed flight course.  I did things in ten hours I never expect to do again.  Looking back at it I think the instructor must have been a few bottles off a dozen.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro

 Sent: 21 May 2009 06:58 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License  

  

  

       

Michel:  

    

   

    

I know that legally your son is your PIC.  For sure, that does not mean that you don't fly the plane.  In practice, he is your safety pilot.  I wonder if either you or him are comfortable flying the plane from the right seat.  

    

   

    

First time I took the controls, my father was the PIC and I was just 9...I was too short to see over the dash of the Cessna 206...sweet memories   

    

   

    

Best wishes mi amigo,  

    

   

    

José  

    

         

  

From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:18:04 PM

 Subject: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 

 > From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com (KITFOXZ(at)aol.com)  

 > Michael I wish you well.  You are certainly one of the most passionate  

 > aviators I have encountered in my life.

 

 Thank you for your kind words, John. Yes, thanks to modern medicine, the chances are that we will die from either cancer or heart failure.

 In my case, they gave me an Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator so, even if my heart stop, it will be defibrillated up to six consecutive times.

 

 This is actually my key argument when meeting my doctor: If I can drive a car, why can't I fly a plane? Because being defibrillate (being described as a horse kick in the chest) while driving would surely put me out of the road. While, in a Kiftox ... there is only air around me.

 

 Correct me if I am wrong but pilots doing aerobatics do sometimes loose consciousness due to excessive Gs, don't they? And without anyone noticeing because, once you let the controls go, the plane flies pretty much straight for a while, isn't it?

 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 

 Do not archive

 

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Although that most folks on the list are airplane pilots, there are a

few of us that have more right seat time in aircraft than left seat

time.  Those of us that have several thousand hours in helicopters

usually fall in that category in that the pilot seat is usually the

right seat and the aircraft are configured to be flown from the right

seat.  Then, in addition to the helicopter time, some of us are

certified flight instructors with several thousand hours in both rotary

wing and fixed wing aircraft as flight instructors as well as

sport/private/commercial pilots.  In the last 47 years of flying from

whichever seat I happen to be in at the time, in either rotary or fixed

wing, I have discovered that I can fly equally poor from either seat.

John Hart

KF IV, NSI Subaru

Wilburton, OK

On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 23:01 -0230, Noel wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jose

 You bring up an interesting point and i would llike to see what others

 think about flying form the right seat.  I flew the right seat years

 ago with an instructor.  At that time I didnâ€™t think it was too

 difficult.  In the past Iâ€™ve also driven RHD cars on the right side of

 the road with no problems ( standard four speed)  but as we are all

 aware running a car at 40 mph and taxiing at 40mph in a small plane

 are not even close to being the same.

 Like yourself I was about 12 the first time it took the controls...

 my father was PIC.  At 13 I did a compressed flight course.  I did

 things in ten hours I never expect to do again.  Looking back at it I

 think the instructor must have been a few bottles off a dozen.

 Noel

 From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M.

 Toro

 Sent: 21 May 2009 06:58 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 Michel:

 I know that legally your son is your PIC.  For sure, that does not

 mean that you don't fly the plane.  In practice, he is your safety

 pilot.  I wonder if either you or him are comfortable flying the plane

 from the right seat.

 First time I took the controls, my father was the PIC and I was just

 9...I was too short to see over the dash of the Cessna 206...sweet

 memories 

 Best wishes mi amigo,

 JosÃ©

 ______________________________________________________________________

 From: Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no>

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:18:04 PM

 Subject: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 > From: KITFOXZ(at)aol.com  

 > Michael I wish you well.  You are certainly one of the most

 passionate  

 > aviators I have encountered in my life.

 Thank you for your kind words, John. Yes, thanks to modern medicine,

 the chances are that we will die from either cancer or heart failure.

 In my case, they gave me an Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator so, even

 if my heart stop, it will be defibrillated up to six consecutive

 times.

 This is actually my key argument when meeting my doctor: If I can

 drive a car, why can't I fly a plane? Because being defibrillate

 (being described as a horse kick in the chest) while driving would

 surely put me out of the road. While, in a Kiftox ... there is only

 air around me.

 Correct me if I am wrong but pilots doing aerobatics do sometimes

 loose consciousness due to excessive Gs, don't they? And without

 anyone noticeing because, once you let the controls go, the plane

 flies pretty much straight for a while, isn't it?

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 Do not archive

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 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a==============

 </b></font></pre>

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 http://forums.matronics.com

 http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Try a G47 ... Then try to adjust the radio in flight...  That should tell you why helis fly right seat.  The old Bell is basakwards.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

rexinator

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 33

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

I confess I that I once attempted to earn a CFI. So I had a bunch of 

right seat time during that training. After a while I felt equally 

comfortable in either seat, just had to compensate for parallax on some 

flight instruments. So it just takes some getting used to, IMHO.

 

Rex

PS: Some may ask, "What happened with the CFI course?" It turns out I 

have mild Aspergers Syndrome which made it difficult to communicate with 

people directly and I couldn't pass the oral part of the tests 

acceptably per the examiner. I only learned about AS recently.



do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Thu, 2009-05-21 at 23:01 -0230, Noel wrote:

   

> Jose

>  

>

> You bring up an interesting point and i would llike to see what others

> think about flying form the right seat.  I flew the right seat years

> ago with an instructor.  At that time I didnâ€™t think it was too

> difficult.  In the past Iâ€™ve also driven RHD cars on the right side of

> the road with no problems ( standard four speed)  but as we are all

> aware running a car at 40 mph and taxiing at 40mph in a small plane

> are not even close to being the same.

>

>  

>

> Like yourself I was about 12 the first time it took the controls...

> my father was PIC.  At 13 I did a compressed flight course.  I did

> things in ten hours I never expect to do again.  Looking back at it I

> think the instructor must have been a few bottles off a dozen.

>

>  

>

> Noel

>

>

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt too.  I've got about 800-900

hours in the Bell 47 series, although 95% of it in the military

versions.

John Hart

KF IV, NSI Subaru

Wilburton, OK

 

On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 00:56 -0230, Noel wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Try a G47 ... Then try to adjust the radio in flight...  That should tell you why helis fly right seat.  The old Bell is basakwards.

 

 Noel

 

 --

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Harry Cieslar [hcieslar(at)cabletv.on.ca]

 Yes you lose your license for 1 year after a heart attack


	


My understanding of the Norwegian text is that we loose it for always, Harry. But thank you for informing me about what's the rule in other countries. I might use it as an argument.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com] 

  Anyway, the aerobatics argument probably will not help you.


	


Okay, Rex. The funny thing is that, when I lost consciousness in the ambulance, last year, it felt pretty much like when my son and I recovered from a deep dive in a Blanik glider, years ago. A feeling the blood was drained from the brain.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Jose M. Toro [jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com] 

 I know that legally your son is your PIC.  For sure, that does not mean that you 

 don't fly the plane.  In practice, he is your safety pilot.  I wonder if either you 

 or him are comfortable flying the plane from the right seat.


	


Hola, José! Funny you should ask; a couple of weeks ago, we went flying and I was in the right hand seat. Back home I said I'll do the landing; something I had never done from the right hand seat. It went ... well but we ended in the runway's shoulder on the right side. I had to yell at him to brake. He forgot that I didn't had brakes on the right hand side pedals. Right hand seat flying is okay but you need to train for it.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:04 am Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Michel:

  

 Seems to me like it is time to install right side brakes.  Once my ex-Kitfox new owner installed right side brakes, it became straight forward to fly it from the right seat.  My first plane (Rans S4) is a single seater with the throttle in the left hand.  I agree it requires traning in order to be safe.

  

 Saludos!

  

 José

  

 

Hola, José! Funny you should ask; a couple of weeks ago, we went flying and I was in the right hand seat. Back home I said I'll do the landing; something I had never done from the right hand seat. It went ... well but we ended in the runway's shoulder on the right side. I had to yell at him to brake. He forgot that I didn't had brakes on the right hand side pedals. Right hand seat flying is okay but you need to train for it.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



<pre><b><= Photoshare, w.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato========================http://forums.matroni            - List Contribution Web Site -

</b></font></pre></body></html>

         [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

Mike C Your dilemma reminds me of my great grandfather. He began losing his vision back in the 1950's and couldn't pass the vision test for his drivers license. Said the hell with them and continued driving the few blocks to the local bar to play cards and drink with his life long buddies C running off the road occasionally. Until they finally took away his car. Damned if he was going to let anybody tell him he couldn't drive. After all C he had been the road commisioner for 20 years.

  

 Do not archive

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL

 

[quote] Date: Fri C 22 May 2009 09:45:18 +0200

 From: michel(at)online.no

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 

 > From: Harry Cieslar [hcieslar(at)cabletv.on.ca]

 > Yes you lose your license for 1 year after a heart attack

 

 My understanding of the Norwegian text is that we loose it for always C Harry. But thank you for informing me about what's the rule in other countries. I might use it as an argument.

 

 > From: Rexinator [rexinator(at)gmail.com] 

 > Anyway C the aerobatics argument probably will not help you.

 

 Okay C Rex. The funny thing is that C when I lost consciousness in the ambulance C last year C it felt pretty much like when my son and I recovered from a deep dive in a Blanik glider C years ago. A feeling the blood was drained from the brain.

 

 > From: Jose M. Toro [jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com] 

 > I know that legally your son is your PIC.  For sure C that does not mean that you 

 > don't fly the plane.  In practice C he is your safety pilot.  I wonder if either you 

 > or him are comfortable flying the plane from the right seat.

 

 Hola C José! Funny you should ask; a couple of weeks ago C we went flying and I was in the right hand seat. Back home I said I'll do the landing; something I had never done from the right hand seat. It went ... well but we ended in the runway's shoulder on the right side. I had to yell at him to brake. He forgot that I didn't had brakes on the right hand side pedals. Right hand seat flying is okay but you need to train for it.

 

 Cheers C

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 

 Do not archive

 

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   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: (OFF-TOPIC) License

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: patrick reilly [patreilly43(at)hotmail.com]

Until they finally took away his car. Damned if he was going to let 

anybody tell him he couldn't drive.


	


I understand, Pat. My father who was a pilot in the Belgian air force, at the age of 67, told my mother: I stop driving; your turn now! My mother couldn't understand because his vision was quite good but he told me himself: "I see clearly but I have lost my sense of perspective and distance judgement." Having been himself a pilot instructor for so many years, he knew what was dangerous for a pilot or driver.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Jose M. Toro [jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com]

 Seems to me like it is time to install right side brakes.


	


Perhaps, José. But with my son, we have the routine that if something happens, the left seater "aviates" while the right seater "navigates and communicates." In principle, it is only the left seater that lands the plane. In that case, we simply tried to see how a right seater could do it ... for fun.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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