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Matt Dralle
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26320
Location: Livermore CA USA
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 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: RV-8 F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners - When To Rivet... |
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RV-8 Builders:
In Section 8 of the builders manual (Page 8-50 for the 4/26/07 rev), Drawing 77, it appears that they are having you hold off riveting the floor stiffeners along the sides of the stick mount until *after* the floor skins are installed rather than before they are installed. Is this because there's no way you can get the floor skins into the right position once these stiffeners are riveted on? I'm referring to F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners.
That's kind of a bummer to have to try to rivet those after the skin is installed for obvious reasons, but begs a bigger question; what about down the road when you might have to remove the floor skins for some reason. Do you have to drill those stiffener rivets out too? Ugg...
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
Second Try On The Wheel Pants...
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: RV-8 F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners - When To Rivet... |
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On 4 Jun 2009, at 21:24, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: |
In Section 8 of the builders manual (Page 8-50 for the 4/26/07 rev),
Drawing 77, it appears that they are having you hold off riveting
the floor stiffeners along the sides of the stick mount until
*after* the floor skins are installed rather than before they are
installed. Is this because there's no way you can get the floor
skins into the right position once these stiffeners are riveted on?
I'm referring to F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners.
That's kind of a bummer to have to try to rivet those after the skin
is installed for obvious reasons, but begs a bigger question; what
about down the road when you might have to remove the floor skins
for some reason. Do you have to drill those stiffener rivets out
too? Ugg...
|
Short version - Try inserting the floors with the stiffeners clecoed
in place, and the issues will immediately be apparent.
Long version - My kit is a lot older than yours, but I think the
issues are similar. You need to push the floors outboard as you slip
them in place, to slide the outer edges of the floors between the
angles that support them, and the flanges on the 805 and 806 ribs on
the fuselage sides. But, with the stiffeners in place, the ends of
the stiffeners straddle the floor ribs, which prevents you from
sliding the floors sideways. I wanted my floors to be removable, so I
trimmed the corners off the stiffeners, and the same on the bottoms of
the flanges on the 805 and 806 ribs on the fuselage sides. I still
have to utter a few choice words to wiggle them in and out of place,
but it is doable.
--
Kevin Horton (Grounded)
RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
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tracy(at)rotaryaviation.c
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: RV-8 F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners - When To Rivet... |
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I found the suggested Van's procedure so 'un-likable' that I cut the floor skins that required it into two pieces and added necessary flanges & nutplates. I anticipated way too many occasions when I might need to have access. There have been several already and I haven't even flown the -8 yet.
Tracy Crook ( getting ready to call DAR)
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com (khorton01(at)rogers.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com (khorton01(at)rogers.com)>
On 4 Jun 2009, at 21:24, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
In Section 8 of the builders manual (Page 8-50 for the 4/26/07 rev), Drawing 77, it appears that they are having you hold off riveting the floor stiffeners along the sides of the stick mount until *after* the floor skins are installed rather than before they are installed. Is this because there's no way you can get the floor skins into the right position once these stiffeners are riveted on? I'm referring to F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners.
That's kind of a bummer to have to try to rivet those after the skin is installed for obvious reasons, but begs a bigger question; what about down the road when you might have to remove the floor skins for some reason. Do you have to drill those stiffener rivets out too? Ugg...
|
Short version - Try inserting the floors with the stiffeners clecoed in place, and the issues will immediately be apparent.
Long version - My kit is a lot older than yours, but I think the issues are similar. You need to push the floors outboard as you slip them in place, to slide the outer edges of the floors between the angles that support them, and the flanges on the 805 and 806 ribs on the fuselage sides. But, with the stiffeners in place, the ends of the stiffeners straddle the floor ribs, which prevents you from sliding the floors sideways. I wanted my floors to be removable, so I trimmed the corners off the stiffeners, and the same on the bottoms of the flanges on the 805 and 806 ribs on the fuselage sides. I still have to utter a few choice words to wiggle them in and out of place, but it is doable.
--
Kevin Horton (Grounded)
RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26320
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: RV-8 F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners - When To Rivet... |
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At 10:24 PM 6/4/2009 Thursday, Vincent Himsl wrote:
| Quote: | <snip>
I Pop riveted the floor as per plans. I also have nothing under them I need access too. You could use plate nuts in lieu of pop rivets, but at (at) 20 minutes install time per plate nut you would need to remove the floors several times to offset the speed advantage of the Pop rivets.
<snip>
Vince H
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Thanks everybody for the feedback. Installing those two-legged nut plates are definitely a pain in the rear. What's everyone's opinion on using #6 AN Rivnuts instead ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/rivnuts.html )? Seems like the sheer and clamping strength of these has to be at least as good as those pop rivets? I used the #6 AN Rivnuts to attach the canopy and they are really nice, easy to install, and hold very well. I've attached a picture of them from my canopy frame for those that haven't see them before.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
Second Try On The Wheel Pants...
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: RV-8 F-830C-1 Floor Stiffeners - When To Rivet... |
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Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | At 10:24 PM 6/4/2009 Thursday, Vincent Himsl wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I Pop riveted the floor as per plans. I also have nothing under them I need access too. You could use plate nuts in lieu of pop rivets, but at (at) 20 minutes install time per plate nut you would need to remove the floors several times to offset the speed advantage of the Pop rivets.
>
> <snip>
>
> Vince H
>
Thanks everybody for the feedback. Installing those two-legged nut plates are definitely a pain in the rear. What's everyone's opinion on using #6 AN Rivnuts instead ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/rivnuts.html )? Seems like the sheer and clamping strength of these has to be at least as good as those pop rivets? I used the #6 AN Rivnuts to attach the canopy and they are really nice, easy to install, and hold very well. I've attached a picture of them from my canopy frame for those that haven't see them before.
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV
Second Try On The Wheel Pants...
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Matt,
With unkeyed rivnuts set in sheet aluminum, it's not a question of *if*
they will spin, but *when*. Think about the fun of drilling off the head
of a steel screw that's spinning with the spinning rivnut when you make
your decision. 
I have a strong aversion to them; I'd rather drill out a few dozen
aluminum pops than deal with a spinning rivnut.
FWIW...
Charlie
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