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Sam James Cowl

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pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: Sam James Cowl

Looking for feedback from those of you flying with the James cowl.Specificaly how hard was the install,how are the oil temps and where did you mount the oil cooler.Would you do it again?

   Thanks-Jim

 

 --

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: Sam James Cowl

I have one on my 6A.  I don't think my install  was much different than a stock van's cowl - except for the three  rings.

 The plenum OTOH was a real PITA.  The  fiberglass didn't fit the basic shape and required a bunch of reworking.   Then I added the fuel purge valve for my AFP FI system to make it a little  worse.

  

 My oil cooler is mounted behind #4 (it's a 4cyl- so  for you it would probably be behind #6).  I left some baffling material  available in order for me to mount the cooler as high as possible.  The oil  temp goes to 185 on a warm day in May and flat-lines.....I get a little spike in  temp as I descend and land.  CHT's for that side are fine  too......

  

 I would do it again after knowing that the  plug/mold for the plenum had been re-made....to fit....maybe they started over  for the 540.....

 [quote]   ---

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

I've got the James cowl and the plenum, and I've been asked this 

question before, and I still don't have a good answer. 1st I don't 

believe the 7-10 mph speed increase that's advertised. I'm not seeing 

that, and I don't know of anyone else that is. IMO the installation of 

the cowl is likely more difficult than Van's. Van's uses Nomex honeycomb 

material as a sandwich, and James doesn't, I believe he uses Paralam (?) 

a fiberglass type of sandwich. The result is that the James cowl is more 

'floppy' (technical term). which makes fitting a bit more of a 

challenge.  I went through 3 rolls of duct tape in the fitting of my 

cowl. I needed the James RV10 cowl in order to fit the BPE cold air. 

However I ended up modifying it anyway because there was no James cowl 

solution to allow for filtered air for forward facing fuel servos. The 

early versions of the James Cowl for the RV-10  had a smaller exit area  

on the lower cowl. He modified that and fixed the earlier versions, but 

again IMO  the exit area is still small, especially if you use the 

Forsling exhaust headers/collectors which take up much of that area.  

Will James is experimenting with some larger  (12%)  intake rings, I 

don't know if there is any change in performance as a result.

The plenum is another story, I found that the intake rings did not match 

the cowl intake rings. I ended up cutting one off and 

repositioning/rebuilding it. i spoke with several other builders that 

did the same. I did NOT use the James baffling plans but rather Van's 

baffle kit. This requires further modification of the aft portion of the 

plenum. as it's different than the Van's baffling.  I also had to 

fabricate an oil filler neck and seal for access to the oil 

filler/dipstick. And I put a pop-up for the AFP fuel purge valve. The 

fit of the plenum to the front of the engine case was terrible, I ended 

up cutting it off entirely, and reglassing a new one. I'm not an 

aerodynamicist, but I believe the plenum would benefit from slightly 

larger volume of air. As it come from Sam it woujld require a major 

modification to allow, in hind sight, I believe I could have fabricated 

my own plenum for the amount of time I put into modifying Sam's. With my 

Phase 1 complete. I am seeing pretty good CHT's (366-388) with OAT 24C (at) 

altitude. I believe the differential will get smaller as I balance the 

injectors.

Oil/CHT temps. I live in the desert and I've always been worried about 

high engine temps. I followed almost all of the James cowl installations 

and flights that went before mine, and I had developed a bias that at 

least the BPE Jame Cowl. Had some high temp issues. After my initial 

flights I felt this was also true for me. I initially had oil temps of 

235 F and CHT of 425F. I sealed all known baffle/plenum leaks. installed 

louvers on the bottom of the cowl, and installed a deflector inside the 

oil cooler mount. The total improvement after 10 hours of flying 

amounted to no more that 10 degree reduction in temps. Frustrated I 

moved on, and installed the wheel pants/leg fairings. And temps droppped 

to  Oil 185-195 depending on OAT, and CHT's as noted above. I don't know 

if it's was coincident with the engine 'breaking-in' or not, but my 

personal beliefe is that installing the pants/fairings added 15 kts to 

the TAS and that increase of airflow through the cowl/oil cooler had the 

biggest effect on temps being reduced.

Lastly is appearance. IMO there is no question that the James cowl is a 

major improvement on appearance over the stock Van's cowl. It just looks 

good! And I'm very happy with how it looks.

So there's some more data , use your own individual decision weighting 

criteria for how  important/unimportant those items are to you.



Deems Davis

N519PJ Phase 1 complete!!!!!!!!!



pilotdds(at)aol.com wrote:

[quote] Looking for feedback from those of you flying with the James 

 cowl.Specificaly how hard was the install,how are the oil temps and 

 where did you mount the oil cooler.Would you do it again?

   Thanks-Jim



 --

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

Jim,  

            This is a loaded question. As I am one of the few flying -10 SJ Cowl & Plenums I will take a stab at it.  

            There is absolutely no actual engineering in the James cowl. It looked good to them so they made one for the 10 with no specific reason to be that shape and inlet size etc… As far as install it’s really not much different than the standard cowl but you have to consider the Plenum too. Again not much more work than the baffles on the standard cowl. You also have to know if you are using Carb/FI//Cold Induction etc… That being said once you are flying there will be a fair amount of trial work to get Oil Temps & CHT’s down. The outlet area on the cowl is not sufficient to allow for adequate air flow over the cylinders and out the bottom. Especially with the awesome Forsling exhaust that flair out and further reduce the outlet area. Deems was fortunate enough to build on our experience by immediately adding several sets of louvers to the bottom of the cowl. Ideally one would add a set to the oil cooler side of the cowl to aid in air flow through the oil cooler but we both didn’t want to ruin the lines. That Deems is so vein. The unfortunate thing about BOTH cowls is the poor airflow through the oil cooler wedge and out the cooling fins on the oil cooler. Someone makes an insert to better take advantage of the airflow through the oil cooler but barely. Plan on upgrading to the larger 2006 oil cooler (at minimum) with this combination. We actually reconfigured the oil cooler to receive direct RAM air into our even larger 2008 oil cooler. This had the added benefit of not taking oil cooler air from the plenum providing more air to cool the cylinders.  

            To answer your question I would do it again? If I know what I know now then most likely but all the R&D initially required made me wish we stuck with the Vans plans. You may find that once you are flying that Vans idea of simple, light & plans built is a pretty good option. That being said it is undeniably good looking  

   

Robin  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C9E52F.CC40EB40[/img]  

[img]cid:image004.jpg(at)01C9E52F.CC40EB40[/img]  

[img]cid:image006.jpg(at)01C9E52F.CC40EB40[/img]  

   

   

   

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotdds(at)aol.com

 Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:12 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Sam James Cowl  

  

   

Looking for feedback from those of you flying with the James cowl.Specificaly how hard was the install,how are the oil temps and where did you mount the oil cooler.Would you do it again?

   Thanks-Jim

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

you guys are making me glad I went with the Vans plans. The  only thing I had had to do was eliminate the air dams in front of cyl 1 and  2.for AZ weather



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin  Marks

Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:16 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Sam James  Cowl

 

  

Jim, 

             This is a loaded question. As I am one of the few flying -10 SJ Cowl &  Plenums I will take a stab at it. 

             There is absolutely no actual engineering in the James cowl. It looked good to  them so they made one for the 10 with no specific reason to be that shape and  inlet size etc… As far as install it’s really not much different than the  standard cowl but you have to consider the Plenum too. Again not much more work  than the baffles on the standard cowl. You also have to know if you are using  Carb/FI//Cold Induction etc… That being said once you are flying there will be a  fair amount of trial work to get Oil Temps & CHT’s down. The outlet area on  the cowl is not sufficient to allow for adequate air flow over the cylinders and  out the bottom. Especially with the awesome Forsling exhaust that flair out and  further reduce the outlet area. Deems was fortunate enough to build on our  experience by immediately adding several sets of louvers to the bottom of the  cowl. Ideally one would add a set to the oil cooler side of the cowl to aid in  air flow through the oil cooler but we both didn’t want to ruin the lines. That  Deems is so vein. The unfortunate thing about BOTH cowls is the poor airflow  through the oil cooler wedge and out the cooling fins on the oil cooler. Someone  makes an insert to better take advantage of the airflow through the oil cooler  but barely. Plan on upgrading to the larger 2006 oil cooler (at minimum) with  this combination. We actually reconfigured the oil cooler to receive direct RAM  air into our even larger 2008 oil cooler. This had the added benefit of not  taking oil cooler air from the plenum providing more air to cool the  cylinders. 

             To answer your question I would do it again? If I know what I know now then most  likely but all the R&D initially required made me wish we stuck with the  Vans plans. You may find that once you are flying that Vans idea of simple,  light & plans built is a pretty good option. That being said it is  undeniably good looking 

  

Robin 

[img]cid:521283723(at)04062009-1CA4[/img] 

[img]cid:521283723(at)04062009-1CAB[/img] 

[img]cid:521283723(at)04062009-1CB2[/img] 

  

  

  

   

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  pilotdds(at)aol.com

Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:12  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Sam James  Cowl

 

  

Looking for feedback from those  of you flying with the James cowl.Specificaly how hard was the install,how are  the oil temps and where did you mount the oil cooler.Would you do it  again?

  Thanks-Jim

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jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: Sam James Cowl

We have just started flying with our Sam James cowl and plenum.  We have not flown yet with wheel pants on, and experience is limited, so take this for what it is worth. 

 

I think the cowl installation was fairly simple, it really didn't go that bad.  The plenum we received was essentially a good template to use to get started.  Like Deems we used Vans baffling, which meant we had to modify the aft end of the plenum significantly.  It is important to note that the aft mounting flange of the 'stock' plenum points downward, we flipped this flange over so it points upward.  Doesn't sound like a big deal but it allowed us to move the intake for the oil cooler up an extra inch, which meant less of the intake is blocked by the cylinder.  Also had to modify for our purge valve.  Bottom line, between the plenum, and the ram air installation I learned way more about fiberglass than I ever though I would.  Makes the cabin top and doors seem like a walk in the park. 

 

Our temps have been what I perceive to be normal for the stage we are in, cruise oil temps around 185, and CHTs 370 - 390, climb oil temps at 200 and CHTs from 400 - 420 (67 OAT at altitude).  We do NOT have ANY louvers cut in the bottom of the cowl yet.  Our engine is a Lycoming Thunderbolt (at) 260HP, nothing special done to it other than flowed and 'extra' balanced, no cold air induction, no bumps on compression, stock oil cooler, and stock location. 

 

Would I do it again???  Well now that I know how much fun it is to fly, was worth the extra time?  I like building and I like a challenge, I probably would do it again, but I am a sucker.  Can't speak to the speed difference, but I will continue to tell myself that this speed mod is responsible for 10 MPH, and the ram air is responsible for anther 5 MPH.  Making cruise at 200 MPH on 7 GPH a reality, oh wait reality, I forgot...  We all know the only thing that makes an airplane fly is cash, and the only thing that makes it faster is more cash, these mods all seem to satisfy the equation. 

 

Just the story of one airplane, good luck reasoning yourself to a decision. 



 Thanks, Jason Kreidler 

 

#40617 - N44YH - Flying 

4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI 

Tony Kolar - Kyle Hokel - Wayne Elsner - Jason Kreidler [quote][b]

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

thane

Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 56

Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

I have to agree with all the comments about the  James cowl and plenum install. I would have to say that I do have a solid 180  kts. airplane, but I don't know if the advertised speed gains are valid  from James.

 I also have the James wheel pants.

 The install of the cowl was as easy as Vans except  when it came to fabricating the airbox from scratch.  But like Robin I did  not have to modify the clean look of the cowl intake.  The plenum was as  Deems said very rough and needed a great deal of mods and re-work.

 I would go the same route again if not for a better  looking cowl, but the possibility of some added speed.

 I have had no cooling issues.  Oil temp 180's,  all CHT's in the 350's- 380's.  Now when the temps in the south come up I  will have a little higher temps in the climb, but still able to cool it down in  cruise. 

 BTW, I am running the BPE. 540; 288 hp.CAI.   and love the power and smoothness.  Great engine.

 Thane States

 65 hrs. flown 

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Working on finish kit: I hate fiberglass!!

Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Sam James Cowl

Just picked up my James plenum today, and Sam showed me an RV-10 with the plenum installed. It had no fiberglass rework on it and the fit was perfect. It looks like all the glitches have are worked out. I will let you all know when I get to install it. Don't have my engine yet.



By the way, did any of you get your engine delivered yet from Van's Sun n' Fun deals?



Lenny

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

"It looks like all the glitches have are worked out"



Lenny, Lenny, Lenny....I think Deems has a bridge to sell you?



Robin (wishing you the best)

Do Not Archive



--

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: Sam James Cowl

I got mine on June 1st.



Dave Leikam

RV-10 #40496

N89DA

Muskego, WI



do not archive

---

Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Sam James Cowl

Robin, if it fits will you inflate my air matress at Osh, your way? )



Seriously, after hearing a few horror stories how this thing didn't fit and needed a lot of rework, I was somewhat relieved to see one installed and looking like it wasn't a big deal. I'll keep my fingers crossed.



Lenny

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