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kheindl(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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I am currently rigging my glider wings C hopefully for the last time.
In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees C it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down C and about 30 up.
My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book C or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer not having to shave them down.
Any ideas ?
Karl
[quote][b]
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thomas(at)scherer.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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Karl,
not being an aerodynamacist I would still strongly opt for going 'by the book' here !
I recall having to shave mine to achieve the nrs. For the weight lost I filled the previously filled holes and things were fine.
If you allow a relative shift f your deflections you'll end up with the stick being off-center all the time in the lightest case and with a unpredictable aeroplane in the worst case (if the offsets of both wings do not happen to coincide).
So, go shaving ! I am sure you had worse jobs 'a do. And I remember that feeling on fair-weather days that one could be in the air a little earlier at the price of less attention to detail. But refrain. She will pay it all back to you.
be well,
Thomas
[quote] ---
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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Thomas C
You are absolutely right. I was just looking for a quick fix. As it turned out C only one wing was really affected and easily fixed by grinding away a little from the mass balance boxes C plus some pushrod adjustments on both wings.
The glider ailerons are a really close fit in a very narrow closeout. Maybe it's just me C but the clearances on the short wings were much easier to work with.
best regards C Karl
From: thomas(at)scherer.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections
Date: Sat C 13 Jun 2009 10:07:33 +0200
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Karl C
not being an aerodynamacist I would still strongly opt for going 'by the book' here !
I recall having to shave mine to achieve the nrs. For the weight lost I filled the previously filled holes and things were fine.
If you allow a relative shift f your deflections you'll end up with the stick being off-center all the time in the lightest case and with a unpredictable aeroplane in the worst case (if the offsets of both wings do not happen to coincide).
So C go shaving ! I am sure you had worse jobs 'a do. And I remember that feeling on fair-weather days that one could be in the air a little earlier at the price of less attention to detail. But refrain. She will pay it all back to you.
be well C
Thomas
[quote] ---
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Karl,
The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake turbulence recovery or near miss, it's imperative to have full authority.
Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and glass. Then I make the weight arms final.
Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So far my batting average is 50%.
As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. Reglass over the top.
Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler.
The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in stop on the aileron is the limit again.
Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another day in the shop.
Bud
[quote] ---
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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Hi Bud C
Thank you for the advice. I am almost there. I didn't have to shave the weights C and the ailerons are in balance. More adjustments will be necessary after paint C but I left holes and C as you suggest C I can add more weight behind the lead . At the moment I can't tell the difference between left and right C and up and down. When the left aileron is neutral C the right one is slightly up. So I extend the inboard pushrd C and the aileron moves up even more. Maybe it will make more sense tomorrow. Time for a beer.
Regards C Karl
From: budyerly(at)msn.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections
Date: Sun C 14 Jun 2009 13:11:20 -0400
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10pt;} Karl C
The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake turbulence recovery or near miss C it's imperative to have full authority.
Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and glass. Then I make the weight arms final.
Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So far my batting average is 50%.
As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. Reglass over the top.
Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler.
The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in stop on the aileron is the limit again.
Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another day in the shop.
Bud
[quote] ---
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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Just a remark - tungsten welding electrode is an efficient mass with
almost twice the density of lead.
Jan de Jong
Karl Heindl wrote:
[quote]
Hi Bud,
Thank you for the advice. I am almost there. I didn't have to shave
the weights, and the ailerons are in balance. More adjustments will be
necessary after paint, but I left holes and, as you suggest, I can add
more weight behind the lead . At the moment I can't tell the
difference between left and right, and up and down. When the left
aileron is neutral, the right one is slightly up. So I extend the
inboard pushrd, and the aileron moves up even more. Maybe it will make
more sense tomorrow. Time for a beer.
Regards, Karl
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: budyerly(at)msn.com
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Aileron deflections
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:11:20 -0400
Karl,
The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing
flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake
turbulence recovery or near miss, it's imperative to have full authority.
Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the
leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and
glass. Then I make the weight arms final.
Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So
far my batting average is 50%.
As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need.
Reglass over the top.
Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more
lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide
them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler.
The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron.
Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in
stop on the aileron is the limit again.
Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another
day in the shop.
Bud
---
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: Aileron deflections |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> I have made a correction the wrong way more than once.
Beer solves that, as you'll come back to it with a relaxed clear head in the morning.
Bud
[quote] ---
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