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Shower of Sparks Help

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rv6a(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

Hi Bob 

  

 I wired my RV6A (I think) according to your Shower  of Sparks info I found on the Internet.  I did this quite awhile ago, and  just got around to a planned first start today.  In doing some preliminary  checking with the plugs out before the start, it appears I have both mags  producing sparks in the start mode.   The mags, vibrator and ignition  switch all came out of the same aircraft (R22), thus I know they were compatible  at one time.

  

 Is there something obvious I should check that may  be causing this problem?

 Can continuity of the wires be checked while still  attached to the swithch? 

  

 Thanks in advance.

  

 John Crate

 [quote]   ---

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mcculleyja(at)starpower.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

John,



I'm not Bob, but are the mags both equipped with retard breaker points 

as indicated by two connections on each mag? Are they Slick mags? What 

are their part numbers? On most installations there will be different 

part numbers with one (usually the left) being the retard breaker mag.



If they came off of a Helicopter engine (R22?)they might be using dual 

retard breaker mags, which would provide TDC sparks from both mags 

during start and then both reverting to normal (25 degree?advance) when 

the start switch is released from the start position. This should be 

good in the sense that easier starts would be expected because both sets 

of plugs would be firing throughout the start up process.



Jim McCulley

==============================================================================



John wrote:

[quote] Hi Bob

  

 I wired my RV6A (I think) according to your Shower of Sparks info I 

 found on the Internet.  I did this quite awhile ago, and just got around 

 to a planned first start today.  In doing some preliminary checking with 

 the plugs out before the start, it appears I have both mags producing 

 sparks in the start mode.   The mags, vibrator and ignition switch all 

 came out of the same aircraft (R22), thus I know they were compatible at 

 one time.

  

 Is there something obvious I should check that may be causing this problem?

 Can continuity of the wires be checked while still attached to the swithch?

  

 Thanks in advance.

  

 John Crate

 

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

At 05:50 PM 6/18/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Bob 

  

 I wired my RV6A (I think) according to your Shower of Sparks info I found on the Internet.  I did this quite awhile ago, and just got around to a planned first start today.  In doing some preliminary checking with the plugs out before the start, it appears I have both mags producing sparks in the start mode.   The mags, vibrator and ignition switch all came out of the same aircraft (R22), thus I know they were compatible at one time. 	


   Here's a link to an article I did some years

   ago on SOS systems . . . never quite got around

   to polishing it up it but it's essentially complete.



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf

 

   Only one mag with a second set of retard

   points is hooked to the vibrator. The second

   mag is prevented from operating by inclusion

   of the GRD to R jumper shown in the first

   of the two wiring diagrams. If both mags are

   "active" then perhaps the jumper is not in

   place.



   How do you know that both mags are active?

   Are you getting vibrator enhanced sparks from

   both devices? They should not be sharing any

   connections with the vibrator unless it's

   specifically designed to handle a PAIR of

   dual breaker mags.



   Can you point me to the information you used

   to do the wiring?



 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

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rv6a(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

Bob

  

 The link you referenced below is the one I used to  wire my SOS system (Key Switch Controlled).  The GRD to R jumper was  checked and is in place.  The way that I know both mags are active is  that, as a test before first start, I pulled a plug wired to each  mag and cranked the starter to check for spark.  . I don't know  whether the vibrator was working at the time.  

  

 Is there a way to check the keyed ignition switch  to make sure it is working properly?  Could a faulty shield connection on  the Right Mag at either the switch or mag terminal cause the  problem?

  

 Thanks

  

 John

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

If you have an A&P handy, he should be able to sort it out. You should 

have  two P leads to the left mag, only one to the right. Make sure when 

key switch is off, mags are in fact grounded, before going further. TC 

aircraft with the SOS system use a push to start Bendix switch(pricey at 

  $280)which operates the vibrator when turned to start, and only 

activates the starter relay when pushed toward dash. That allows 

checking for pulsing signal on retard breaker P lead.

If the mags are both firing when starter is activated, right mag P lead 

isn't grounded.



John wrote:

[quote]  

 

 Bob

  

 The link you referenced below is the one I used to wire my SOS system 

 (Key Switch Controlled).  The GRD to R jumper was checked and is in 

 place.  The way that I know both mags are active is that, as a test 

 before first start, I pulled a plug wired to each mag and cranked the 

 starter to check for spark.  . I don't know whether the vibrator was 

 working at the time. 

  

 Is there a way to check the keyed ignition switch to make sure it is 

 working properly?  Could a faulty shield connection on the Right Mag at 

 either the switch or mag terminal cause the problem?

  

 Thanks

  

 John

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

At 11:45 PM 6/18/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bob

  

 The link you referenced below is the one I used to wire my SOS system (Key Switch Controlled).  The GRD to R jumper was checked and is in place.  The way that I know both mags are active is that, as a test before first start, I pulled a plug wired to each mag and cranked the starter to check for spark.  . I don't know whether the vibrator was working at the time. 	


   What kind of spark did you get? A magneto is

   capable of delivering but a single spark per

   ignition even. If the shower of sparks vibrator

   system is working, the left magneto should

   be delivering a continuous stream of sparks

   during engine cranking. Should should also

   be able to hear the vibrator "buzzing".

  

   If the key switch is bad, then the mags

   are NEVER being shut off . . . not a good

   thing. Be sure your shield grounds are

   properly and robustly wired as shown. It

   could be that you're not getting the right

   mag grounded because the shield is improperly

   terminated at one end or both ends.



  	  Quote: 	
		     

  

 Is there a way to check the keyed ignition switch to make sure it is working properly?  Could a faulty shield connection on the Right Mag at either the switch or mag terminal cause the problem? 	


   Sure. Leave the master switch off. Disconnect

   the p-lead from the R mag and put an ohmmeter

   between center conductor and shield. 

  

   Turn the key switch and watch ohmmeter. You should

   read less than 1 ohm in all key switch positions

   except "R" and "BOTH".  In particular, you're

   interested in seeing the R mag get shorted in the

   START position which is what the jumper does for

   you. If this doesn't happen, then the switch is

   probably bad . . . but check the shield grounds

   first. Check out this shield termination process

   if you've not already seen it.



  http://aeroelectric.com/articles/shldwire/shldwire.html



   I believe these key switches can be disassembled,

   cleaned and lubricated. An alternative is to

   use toggle switches as shown in the third

   diagram. Much less expensive and easier to

   maintain.



 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

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rv6a(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

Thanks again Bob for sharing your expertise... I'll  confirm that the vibrator is working and troubleshoot the system as suggested,  but before I do,  could you please help me with a  couple more questions I have about the SOS system?   With reference to  the wire between the LR terminal on the switch and the retard breaker on  the left mag, is this suppose to be a shielded wire with the shield running  to GND the same as the L & R p-lead?  If not, what would be the  consequences of using a shielded wire with the shield running to the switch  ground.  I know I used shielded wire for the retard breaker, but can't  recall if I ran the shield to ground.   I haven't had a chance to  pull the switch yet to check.

  

 Regards,

  

 John 

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:52 am Post subject: Shower of Sparks Help

At 10:38 PM 6/19/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks again Bob for sharing your expertise... 	


   My pleasure sir.



  	  Quote: 	
		   I'll confirm that the vibrator is working and troubleshoot the system as suggested, but before I do,  could you please help me with a couple more questions I have about the SOS system?   With reference to the wire between the LR terminal on the switch and the retard breaker on the left mag, is this suppose to be a shielded wire with the shield running to GND the same as the L & R p-lead?  If not, what would be the consequences of using a shielded wire with the shield running to the switch ground.  I know I used shielded wire for the retard breaker, but can't recall if I ran the shield to ground.   I haven't had a chance to pull the switch yet to check. 	


   This lead is 'hot' only while cranking the

   engine and doesn't represent a potential noise

   source after the engine is running. I've seen

   systems where the designer shielded all the wires

   but most will leave this one un-shielded.



 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------    [quote][b]

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