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Europa 4-seater

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Hi (all those who like flying with a good  company!)

  

 I am happy to let you know we had today "Europa 4-seater  flight".

 That has been my dream since I started building  1999.

 Actually, there were my daughters Tuuli 8 years and  Merete 5 years.

 Me and my wife omboard with full thank TOW was 656 kgs  (1443 lbs).

 My MTOW is 658 kgs (1450 lbs).

 Our CofG was well between limits (almost center because  added Airmaster prop hub 7 kgs (15,4 lbs)).

  

 Everything went WELL and there were not any  problems.

 Children had fun - Europa is a real family  machine!

  

 I am going to have a 4-place intercom next.

  

 My Europa will be permitted (in this country) for  4-seater (actually 2+2), max 60 kgs (132 lbs) on the back seat (with certified  seat belts). 

  

 So, Europa XS is almost like that French fun machine Dyn  Aero´s 4s...

  

  

 Raimo OH-XRT

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Europa 4-seater

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am happy to let you know we had today "Europa 4-seater flight".

That has been my dream since I started building 1999.

Actually, there were my daughters Tuuli 8 years and Merete 5 years.



	




Looks like pretty precious cargo Raimo...congratulations.

You make a good case for the pair of round windows aft which I've been thinkin about...

Fred

A194

--  This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.   [quote][b]

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Raimo,  I think you might have to go on a diet, as your girls get bigger so you dont go  over MTOW 

 I had  considered simmilar for my baby

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Craig, you are right!

  

 I am able to take out 10 kilos but problem is my wife -  she is just perfect now and changing her for lighter one just for flying with  children does not make sense.

  

 MTOW 658 kg: that is for +3,8G with speed 133  knots.

 Flying carefully below 700 kgs is OK IMHO.

  

 I have seen two XXL-size englismen flying around w  fully equipped Europa and they had all kind of heavy camping stuff omboard.  Claimed no problems and their MTOW was only 621  kgs.

  

 Flying 1 hour also means your landing weight is about 12  kgs less because of used fuel.

 In my mind controlling C of G is the most important think  for safety.

  

 So, they main problem is that children are growing  taller every single day!

 I think the comfortable hight limit for the back seat  passengers in Europa is at or below 150 cm /59 inches.

 That means western girls´s age younger than 12 years - so  I have max 4 years time for whole family fying by Europa...no bubble roof  window for the back seat passengers!

  

 Your baby - how old is she/he? She/he will love flying  with you. Look at the attached pic - during those days they were 1 and 4 years  young. They were sleeping but that is only because Cessna flights were so  boring.

  

 I remember early days when Europa announced to have  two back seats for children but never heard later.

  

 Raimo OH-XRT

  

  

  

  

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Thanks Fred

  

 you can be sure I was very careful because of that  precious cargo.

 Children like to be somewhere which is like the  "nest" and Europa´s backseat is like a nest they say. So no more windows - they would like to have some entertainment like  DVDs and PC-games.

  

 What size round windows do you have thought? Maybe 4  inches with typical reinforcements?

  

 Raimo OH-XRT

  

 ---

bdanbish(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

How tall is your tallest Raimo? Mine seems already a bit close on height, (49")though only about 50 lbs.



Regarding the windows, maybe something like this, made for Lancairs...



View at http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org



Attachments: 

http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/dscf0111_152.jpg

http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/dsc00069s_213.jpg

http://www.europaowners.org//zfiles/windownrings_144.jpg

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Hi Raimo,



I just can't resist this..... I, like most builders worked really hard to keep the weight out of the airplane when building.  It usually goes like saving 100 grams here and there and if the builder works really hard at it, maybe save a few kilo's, or if your lucky,even more.

 

The easier solution would be to just go on a diet and take 3 or 5 kilograms out of my ass.  Of course I could tell my wife that she needs to contribute to the cause and take 5 kilograms out of her ass as well, but I don't have a "Death wish".  As you have said, changing for a lighter wife to go flying doesn't make sense.

 

Cheers,  Paul



do not archive



On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)> wrote:

[quote]        Craig, you are right!

  

 I am able to take out 10 kilos but problem is my wife -  she is just perfect now and changing her for lighter one just for flying with  children does not make sense.



 

 Raimo OH-XRT

  

  

[b]

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

"Danbish"



She (Tuuli 8-yrs) is 1280 mm = 50,4" tall.

Your treasure´s height and weight are superb for Europa´s back-seat passenger. 



An openable "Legacy" back seat window would be great for loading and back seat observers.

BUT however so would be also one nice Lancair. At least my poor Europa has now all the equipments and gizmos what´s necessary. It´s empty weight is today 412 kg = 906 lbs and that´s definetely enough (only so far until I find something I cannot resist). 



By the way -  "back-seat" is also quite comfortable also for (slim) adult.

Look at an attachment - that brave maiden flight pilot is about 1750 mm = 69" tall (please do not tell him).



Haven´t we all been there during construction phase?



Raimo OH-XRT

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:07 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Paul

  

 Me too. That was fun. During building I really really  made my best to keep it lightweight.

 Maximum sanding, squeezing, optimizing, making lightening  holes, weighing 1/10 grams, being happy "hey I have an aileron w optimum  weight"  (I called Andy Draper 26. January 2000 and he stated "The  Ideal weight of the umpainted aileron is around 1100 grams +/- 10%". I was so  happy my ailerons were 1126 grams /stbd and 1150 grams /port.

  

 The truth is here: being light-weight or heavy is only  because of all those "necessary" extra toys.

 And we add those toys because we like toys actually. If I  am honest I relly do nothing with autopilot but flying w autopilot is very  captivating. Maybe psychlogists among us know what´s behind - no toys during  childhood or? And so what if person is happy!

  

 Let´s make a competition - what´s the fattest flying  Europa´s empty weight in the universum!

  

 Raimo

  

 [quote]   ---

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:23 am Post subject: Europa 4-seater

Raimo Toivio wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Let´s make a competition - what´s the fattest flying Europa´s empty

 weight in the universum!


	


Where can I apply?

I fear the "weighing day"....



Actually, I weighed the (empty) original Europa instrument panel, and

compared it to my fully equipped instrument panel (I expect my empty

panel to be lighter, but never weighed it). The difference is 10 kilo's.

So, I think I'm not an exception to have all instrumentation and wiring

together at 10 kilo's. Practically everything in the panel is light

weight (the backup GPS has been trimmed down to only half its weight for

example). The attitude indicator is an exception with 2 Kg's... Still,

it could have been lighter with only very basic instrumentation, but I

like toys and redundancy. 

On the other hand I have light weight batteries, only 2 propeller

blades, and a few other weight-savers...



For those who wonder: The new instrument panel does not extend lower

than the original panel, and is not obstructing the forward vision. The

"extra" space is for the most part due to optimization of the available

space. The original instrument panel wastes a lot of space by its thick

edges, boundaries, and unnecessary division into sub-compartments. I had

about 2.5 cm (1 inch) additional panel height available because I have a

(modified) high-top. The firewall height is halfway between mod 64A and

mod 64B; just perfect.  Can still see the nose, but not the entire

cowling.



Oh, anyone interested in a new, never used original genuine Europa

instrument panel? Make me an offer.



-- 

Frans Veldman

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