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Ethanol

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dandpy(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: Ethanol

It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added.  I am debating about what to do.  Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture.  The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues.  I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel.  By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL.  I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL.  Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines?  

   

Dan Yeast  

Frankfort, KY USA  

       [quote][b]

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gfmjr_20(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: Ethanol

Dan--

  Rotax has ok'd the use of ethanol at a 10% level. Up here in the northeast we've pretty much only had ethanol based fuels as mogas for 3-6 years. I've used it in both 2 stroke and 4 stroke rotax engines for 6 years with no issues.

  When I fly xcountry I'll use 100LL with TCP.  The TCP works well at scavenging  the lead out. If you don't  use TCP wth 100LL you will need to change your plugs about every 25 hours

George May

601XL 912s



From: dandpy(at)bellsouth.net

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Ethanol

Date: Sat C 18 Jul 2009 07:18:20 -0400



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It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added.  I am debating about what to do.  Currently C most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol C but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture.  The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues.  I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel.  By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL.  I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL.  Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines?  

   

Dan Yeast  

Frankfort C KY USA  

        	  Quote: 	
		  



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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: Ethanol

TCP has to be burned to work.  If your engine is a two stroke it will do the square root of sweet nothing to protect your main bearings from having lead plate out on them.  It will however keep the top end of a four stroke engine and the exhaust valves pretty clean.   

   

Ethanol is a scourge we are all going to have to learn to live with for the short period at least.  It will die shortly after the governments of our countries quit shelling it with our money. In the meantime I suggest; Getting as close to ethanol proof tanks as is available, Never leave fuel in your plane after a flight unless you know for sure you will be flying again in less than a week, Always buy your fuel from a very busy station as their fuel tends to be fresher.  

   

If you feel a little adventurous you can always wash the ethanol out of the gas.  To do this you simply add as much water as is required to cause a phase separation  in a separate container then siphon off the clean gas.  A couple of problems with doing this is removing the Eth will lower the octane rating, finding a good octane booster that actually works may be a problem.  Also you will have to treat all  your fuel so trips to distant strips may be out.  As far as I know MTBE is not available on the open market.  

   

I also recommend writing your congressman, Senator, Members of parliament or whoever and explain to then the danger they are causing by removing clean fuel from the market.  I only wish there was a way we could collectively sue them (Politicians) the first time a crash occurs that is proven to be the result of Ethanol contamination.  

   

Just for the record if you are really desirous of clean fuel you can always come here to Newfoundland  where there is still no ethanol in the gas.  A couple of years ago a ship load did come in and the story I got is shortly afterward it had to go for refit as all the holds started springing leaks caused by ethanol corrosion.  A federal law recently enacted requires all service stations in the Dominion to sell 10% eth gas within the next four years.  Being that large tracts of the country do not produce corn and there is no known way to efficiently transport the crap yet I have my doubts if we will be forced into ethanol in the next four years.  Come to think of it it’s hard enough in some places to get ethanol at 80 proof in glass bottles.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan & Paula

 Sent: 18 July 2009 08:48

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Ethanol  

  

  

   

It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added.  I am debating about what to do.  Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture.  The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues.  I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel.  By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL.  I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL.  Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines?  

   

Dan Yeast  

Frankfort, KY USA   	  Quote: 	
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol

[quote="dandpy(at)bellsouth.net"]It is becoming difficult to find non ethanol polluted fuel around here and it appears that eventually all available unleaded fuel will have ethanol added.  I am debating about what to do.  Currently, most of the fuels contain a 10% blend of gasoline and ethanol, but the ethanol lobby is pushing for a 15% ratio mixture.  The only apparent alternative is 100LL which also presents some issues.  I am considering a blend of 100LL and ethanol fuel.  By using a mixture of the combination it reduces the ratio of the ethanol in the fuel and the lead in the 100 LL.  I am also considering adding TCP to scavenge the lead in the 100LL.  Does anyone have any information on how effective TCP is reducing the harmful effects of lead in the 91X series of Rotax engines?  

   

Dan Yeast  

Frankfort, KY USA  

        	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Actually, I just asked about Decalin Runup and if anyone knew much about its affectiveness with 100LL over on the Kolb list a little while ago. 



Probably good to ask that here?



Both E10 and Decalin Runup (as well as TCP) have been approved for use in the rotax 4-strokes so at least our engines are covered for the time being. We can use either fuel. I've been using E10 (the only unleaded available here in NM) for about the last 4 months with no apparent problems. I very carefully monitor my fuel filter both pre- and post-flight to check for crapola. I also start robbing gas out of the plane and putting it in the pickup once the plane sits for 2 weeks. 



Once we go to 15%, and don't think for a minute our govt. is smart enough to not do that, we'll have no choice but to run either 100LL full time or a blend. I'll probably go to the blend for local flying and 100LL when I take trips.



I'm going to try the Runup in future when I run 100LL to see what results I get (if I can even tell what the results are ).



LS

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LS
Titan II SS

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Ethanol

Hi Dan,



If you have to choose between ethanol and 100LL, then ethanol is the lesser of the evils. The majority of the people use ethanol now days and they aren't falling out of the air or replacing their engines because of it. I will use ethanol laced fuel over 100LL any day. If you saw what an engine and slipper clutch looked like after a lot of 100LL you would stick with ethanol, too. I personally wouldn't even mix my fuel. 100LL is hard on engines even though the Rotax can run on 100LL for its life, but there are consequences. Cut the plug and oil change intervals in half or pull other parts off to clean out the lead. The ethanol is nothing to the Rotax. Most fuel tanks are ok with ethanol. TCP has some harsh chemicals and not supposed to be kept in the cockpit. Most people I know use Decalin. It does the same thing as TCP, but without the harsh chemicals. You use 1/2 oz. per 10 gals. Get it from Aircraft Spruce for about $16.

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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: Ethanol

Noel wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  



 If you feel a little adventurous you can always wash the ethanol out 

 of the gas.  To do this you simply add as much water as is required to 

 cause a phase separation  in a separate container then siphon off the 

 clean gas.  A couple of problems with doing this is removing the Eth 

 will lower the octane rating, finding a good octane booster that 

 actually works may be a problem.  Also you will have to treat all  

 your fuel so trips to distant strips may be out.  As far as I know 

 MTBE is not available on the open market.



  



 I also recommend writing your congressman, Senator, Members of 

 parliament or whoever and explain to then the danger they are causing 

 by removing clean fuel from the market.  I only wish there was a way 

 we could collectively sue them (Politicians) the first time a crash 

 occurs that is proven to be the result of Ethanol contamination.

 Noel



Noel
	


& all



Here in Europe the alcohol is added at the distribution centres. There 

is _no_ check on which fuel it goes into so even the oil company cannot 

tell you what is in the fuel you are buying. They just have to confirm 

they have sold  certain %age of "biofuel"  IMHO it is madness and 

downright disgusting.

Typical political trickery, as always we pay, they get the bonuses.

Graham,

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