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shinco(at)bright.net
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 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: 582 rotax in Wyoming? |
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To The Kitfox Family...I would like to ask a question....will a rotax
582 in a KF2 will it perform in the out back of Wyoming OK?a gray or
blue head?Thanks Steve Shinabery,N554KF 582 gray head..
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject: 582 rotax in Wyoming? |
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At 01:29 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | To The Kitfox Family...I would like to ask a question....will a
rotax 582 in a KF2 will it perform in the out back of Wyoming OK?a
gray or blue head?Thanks Steve Shinabery,N554KF 582 gray head..
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Steve,
Hopefully Lowell will reply. He had a friend who flew around
Idaho a lot with a 582 equipped IV. My own experience flying around
Utah and across the States is that you have limited climb capability.
My IV's gross ceiling is about 10.5k'; and it takes a long time to
get there. There are plenty of areas in Wyoming that you simply won't
visit with that limitation. (Note that I have a manual mixture
control as well.) Now weight factors in heavily, as in a much lighter
configuration, about 900 pounds, I can get to 12.5k' without too much
trouble. (Note that these are density altitudes, as well. Summer in
Wyoming may have a 10k' density altitude on the runway.)
The rate of climb is pretty limited too. Flying at about
1000 pounds I was unable to climb to even 9k' against a headwind
flying south along the 15 south of Salt Lake City. I had to make some
major detours looking for passes. Typically I flight plan for a
maximum altitude of 7.5k'. I seldom cruise above 9.5k', it just takes
too long to get there.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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napierm(at)cisco.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: 582 rotax in Wyoming? |
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Hey Steve,
I don't know about a model IV, but my model III climbed great on a 582
3-1 C box and a 68" three bladed GSC prop. When I had it dialed in it
would climb loaded with me and another large individual and some gas to
at least 1050lbs (very gross weight) at ~500 fpm on a cold day. It
would exceed 100mph (Vne) level flight at full throttle and I often
cruised at 85. Solo, I climbed to over 13K feet using a HACman to
control EGT's. It was still climbing at ~300fpm but since I didn't have
oxygen I rounded off and went back down. It took about 20 minutes just
to get back down.
I would say that your model 2 should climb just fine with a 582. Note
that one of the guys on this list lengthened the exhaust manifold a
little from the Kitfox supplied one. Supposedly it is closer to the
stock Rotax configuration and he picked up some more power.
You will burn a great deal of gas and oil and it takes a lot of
maintenance to keep it running reliably but lack of power is not a
problem.
FWIW,
Mark Napier
Time: 10:54:02 PM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>
Subject: Re: 582 rotax in Wyoming?
At 01:29 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | To The Kitfox Family...I would like to ask a question....will a
rotax 582 in a KF2 will it perform in the out back of Wyoming OK?a
gray or blue head?Thanks Steve Shinabery,N554KF 582 gray head..
|
Steve,
Hopefully Lowell will reply. He had a friend who flew around
Idaho a lot with a 582 equipped IV. My own experience flying around
Utah and across the States is that you have limited climb capability.
My IV's gross ceiling is about 10.5k'; and it takes a long time to
get there. There are plenty of areas in Wyoming that you simply won't
visit with that limitation. (Note that I have a manual mixture
control as well.) Now weight factors in heavily, as in a much lighter
configuration, about 900 pounds, I can get to 12.5k' without too much
trouble. (Note that these are density altitudes, as well. Summer in
Wyoming may have a 10k' density altitude on the runway.)
The rate of climb is pretty limited too. Flying at about
1000 pounds I was unable to climb to even 9k' against a headwind
flying south along the 15 south of Salt Lake City. I had to make some
major detours looking for passes. Typically I flight plan for a
maximum altitude of 7.5k'. I seldom cruise above 9.5k', it just takes
too long to get there.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject: 582 rotax in Wyoming? |
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Been out of town and just got caught up with the 65 emails waiting. Yes we
did have one of the guys in our annual Idaho back country flight of six with
a Model IV and 582. That is until he opted to change out to a 912. I
always enjoyed watching him fly as he was our most experienced pilot by
far - former charter operator in Maui, Embry Riddel grad and believe it or
not, compatriot of a certain Mr. Lindburgh who had retired to Maui.
Wray was often a thousand feet below us as we climbed through the mountains.
He was exxpert at flying the ridge lifts and, in my mind more importantly,
paying attention to the five guys above him who were coaching him - keeping
him out of the dead end canyons and into the wide canyons that he could
either climb out of or turn around in. I agree with Guy that it could be
done, but fly early and be really careful.
This came into a clearer focus as we all spent some time together with him
at a wedding at a remote Nevada cattle ranch a couple of weeks ago and he
finally told the real story about the time we were returning to California
and left him behind. It was mid afternoon and he found himself in a bowl on
the eastern slope of the Sierras that he simply couldn't climb out of. He
flew circles trying to gain altitude, but he couldn't get high enough to
even escape the valley he was in. He told the rest of us up high to just go
home and he would be fine. (I can't believe we left him there.) He found a
dirt road that looked OK and put it down. As sun set over the mountains, he
discovered that the kind help of his friends, earlier, had become a real
threat to him. At our last fuel stop, we had emptied his airplane of all
his stuff - camping gear and everything else to lighten him up as much as we
could. As the evening cooled he realized that it would be a long cold night
with him in his polo shirt and khakis with only the shelter of the cockpit.
Finding he was having difficulty keeping warm, he drained most of his fuel,
took off and found that he was able to clear the ridge to the east and flew
back into Nevada to overnight and refuel.
To the post that mentioned the 500 and 300 fpm climbs, with the 912s we
routinely expected not quite twice that depending on outside air temps and
altitude.
I think it is doable, but will require some pilot skills akin to soaring as
the ridge lifts were essential for him in a lot of cases during the week and
his ability to land and think through his options and come to a sound
decision while stuck in that bowl made his trip turn out OK. It would also
be nice to have come real knowledge of the terrain to avoid the box canyons.
Then again, I suspect this experience pretty much kicked him into high gear
regarding the new engine.
Lowell
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