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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Hi All C
Has anyone had fuel leaks on tanks that have passed the air pressure test?
Here's why I ask. I built and air tested (per Van's instructions) my tanks two years ago and they tested fine. I am now getting ready to paint before the first flight and am wondering if it is worth the hassle to fill the fuel tanks with 100LL and let them set to check for leaks before painting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Vern Smith #324 (hence forth know as N44QT; finishing)
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. [quote][b]
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Yes. I have a leak on the top of my right tank. In the walk area. Only leaks with full tanks. Took months for the leak to appear. It is under my 3m walk area and is minor, so I have done nothing to fix it.
Also, I flew 410RV (Vans number 1) for my transition training and it also had leaks in the same area.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:51 AM
To: RV 10 list
Subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL
Hi All,
Has anyone had fuel leaks on tanks that have passed the air pressure test?
Here's why I ask. I built and air tested (per Van's instructions) my tanks two years ago and they tested fine. I am now getting ready to paint before the first flight and am wondering if it is worth the hassle to fill the fuel tanks with 100LL and let them set to check for leaks before painting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Vern Smith #324 (hence forth know as N44QT; finishing)
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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The hassle is not re-checking and finding a leak after painting. Another solution is to paint that section of the wing all blue so the fuel stains don’t show!
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 8:51 AM
To: RV 10 list
Subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL
Hi All,
Has anyone had fuel leaks on tanks that have passed the air pressure test?
Here's why I ask. I built and air tested (per Van's instructions) my tanks two years ago and they tested fine. I am now getting ready to paint before the first flight and am wondering if it is worth the hassle to fill the fuel tanks with 100LL and let them set to check for leaks before painting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Vern Smith #324 (hence forth know as N44QT; finishing)
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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coop85(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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I thought I was leak free until painting the airplane with over 100 hours on it. Turns out there was a very slight leak from 2 rivets that went unnoticed with the pressure test as well as flying. Unfortunately it doesn’t take much fuel to trash the paint.
I’d recommend you do anything you can to verify no leaks to prevent pain and suffering later on.
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:51 AM
To: RV 10 list
Subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL
Hi All,
Has anyone had fuel leaks on tanks that have passed the air pressure test?
Here's why I ask. I built and air tested (per Van's instructions) my tanks two years ago and they tested fine. I am now getting ready to paint before the first flight and am wondering if it is worth the hassle to fill the fuel tanks with 100LL and let them set to check for leaks before painting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Vern Smith #324 (hence forth know as N44QT; finishing)
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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That is too funny! Of course watch them change the color of our fuel.
Vern
Subject: RE: Testing fuel tank with 100LL
Date: Tue C 4 Aug 2009 12:37:19 -0400
From: robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
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The hassle is not re-checking and finding a leak after painting. Another solution is to paint that section of the wing all blue so the fuel stains don’t show!
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vernon Smith
Sent: Tuesday C August 04 C 2009 8:51 AM
To: RV 10 list
Subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL
Hi All C
Has anyone had fuel leaks on tanks that have passed the air pressure test?
Here's why I ask. I built and air tested (per Van's instructions) my tanks two years ago and they tested fine. I am now getting ready to paint before the first flight and am wondering if it is worth the hassle to fill the fuel tanks with 100LL and let them set to check for leaks before painting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Vern Smith #324 (hence forth know as N44QT; finishing)
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
0Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. Try it now. [quote][b]
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jkreidler
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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I would absolutely test the tanks before installing them. We have quick-build tanks with leaking rivets on both sides. It seems as though all of the leaking rivets occur in the same locations. I hesitate to call it a design flaw, but it is definitely an opportunity for design improvement.
We tried the green loctite fix with no success. This topic went around a while back and someone mentioned they applied heat, and maybe pressure, or vacuum. Who was that, and how did you do it? This was one of the face to face conversations I wanted to have with Vans at the show. After talking to Ken K. he suggested we remove the tanks, cut an access hole in the back of the tank, repair the rivets, patch the hole, and reinstall the tanks. WOW!! Has anyone removed a tank after the bottom skin was on? Is it even possible to get at the bolts going through the spar? At first glance it didn't seem like it was possible.
I need to get into the aircraft or auto racing industry I could save a ton of time and effort if I could just dismiss quality problems. OK, so I think I have fixed the blame, now it is time to fix the problem. Green loctite didn't seem to work, someone had suggested thinning pro-seal 50% with MEK, applying a slight vacuum to the tank and letting it cure. I have heard some used a Cherrymax rivet with pro-seal, I am not familiar with which rivet to use. Anyone with any ideas?
Test those tanks!! Do not sit or set anything heavy on the inboard side of the tanks. Quick-build workmanship is not guaranteed, not trying to bash Van's, I love this airplane!! But if I bought a $50k car, the gas tank wouldn't leak, and if it did it wouldn't be my problem. To those of you going slow-build, read this every time you question your decision, at least the mistakes are your own. OK, rant off, thanks for listening.
Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying #40617
4 Partner Build
Wayne Elsner - Tony Kolar - Kyle Hokel - Jason Kreidler
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Yes it is possible to remove the tanks. They work the same as Piper Cherokee
tanks. Fortunately I have had no problems with the QB tanks although I did
not remove them as Vans/plans suggested, figuring that why disturb what
someone else had already tested.
--
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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jkreidler wrote:
| Quote: |
<jason.kreidler(at)regalbeloit.com>
I would absolutely test the tanks before installing them. We have
quick-build tanks with leaking rivets on both sides. It seems as
though all of the leaking rivets occur in the same locations. I
hesitate to call it a design flaw, but it is definitely an
opportunity for design improvement.
We tried the green loctite fix with no success. This topic went
around a while back and someone mentioned they applied heat, and
maybe pressure, or vacuum. Who was that, and how did you do it?
Could have been me. Use minor vacuum ..... put the vacuum hose in the
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filler, plug the vents, and have someone hold a rag around the
filler/hose joint ..... you don't want to seal it!!! Causes tanks to
shrink funny!
| Quote: | This was one of the face to face conversations I wanted to have with
Vans at the show. After talking to Ken K. he suggested we remove the
tanks, cut an access hole in the back of the tank, repair the rivets,
patch the hole, and reinstall the tanks. WOW!! Has anyone removed a
tank after the bottom skin was on? Is it even possible to get at the
bolts going through the spar? At first glance it didn't seem like it
was possible.
I need to get into the aircraft or auto racing industry I could save
a ton of time and effort if I could just dismiss quality problems.
OK, so I think I have fixed the blame, now it is time to fix the
problem. Green loctite didn't seem to work, someone had suggested
thinning pro-seal 50% with MEK, applying a slight vacuum to the tank
and letting it cure. I have heard some used a Cherrymax rivet with
pro-seal, I am not familiar with which rivet to use. Anyone with any
ideas?
The green Loctite should work ...... use the vacuum to suck some MEK
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into the leak to clean it. If the MEK disappears in large quantities,
the hole may be too large for the green Loctite trick. In that case I'd
try the thinned MEK/vacuum step. Failing that, I'd use the Cherry rivet
fix before I removed the tank, cut a hole .... a big leak waiting to
happen ....
| Quote: |
Test those tanks!! Do not sit or set anything heavy on the inboard
side of the tanks. Quick-build workmanship is not guaranteed, not
trying to bash Van's, I love this airplane!! But if I bought a $50k
car, the gas tank wouldn't leak, and if it did it wouldn't be my
problem. To those of you going slow-build, read this every time you
question your decision, at least the mistakes are your own. OK, rant
off, thanks for listening.
Either way .... your workmanship or theirs ..... the leaks are still
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there. It's a problem when you drill a hole and then fill it with a
rivet, cover it with sealant ..... where you can ..... and hope for the
best. Your 50K car has a two piece tank with rolled edges .... and yes,
they do sometimes leak. Usually not bad enough to notice a stain on the
garage floor .... until the warranty expires!!! However, and I speak
from experience ..... auto fuel doesn't leave a stain like 100LL so it's
really easy to overlook it.Linn
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:14 pm Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Folks, MEK is a poor second choice for thinning proseal. Toluene is the
correct thinner. However, rather than messing with thinning, just buy
one cartridge of A-2 compound, as it is already the correct consistency
for brushing. Perhaps $20.
In fact, the Mooney method for tank sealing is to do fillets and gap
seals with B compound, then brush A compound over the fillets and all
rivet heads, nutplates, bolts, etc. That is followed by a "cherry juice"
top coat that is brushed on, two coats, to protect the proseal from
effects of fuel, ethanol, and most anything else that gets in there. So
Vans approach of only using B-2 with no access panel is a minimalist
approach. My Mooney has 4 access plates in the design, and yes, there is
a different access panel version of proseal.
jkreidler wrote:
| Quote: |
This topic went around a while back and someone mentioned they
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applied heat, and maybe pressure, or
vacuum.
| Quote: |
OK, so I think I have fixed the blame, now it is time to fix the
|
problem. Green loctite didn't seem to work,
someone had suggested thinning pro-seal 50% with MEK, applying a slight
vacuum to the tank and letting it
cure.
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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| Quote: | | I have heard some used a Cherrymax rivet with pro-seal, I am not familiar with which rivet to use. Anyone with any ideas? |
Check out blind rivets at Aircraft Spruce. The AN 41H is a good example of a closed end blind rivet. I think Cherrymax has it as BSPQ-41. Higher numbers, such as 42, 43, etc, are grip length.
John
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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Thanks for the help! I was leaning towards retesting the tank with fuel before painting and the feedback just confirms it. Kind of miss the old welded tanks on the Cessna.
Vern
do not archive
Get free photo software from Windows Live Click here. [quote][b]
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Testing fuel tank with 100LL |
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Cherrymax are "approved" replacements for solid AD rivets where the rivet
can not be bucked. They are significantly more costly than the blind rivets
supplied with the kit.
--
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