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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
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 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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I wanted to see if we could get some data on the distance between the prop and the ground when the prop is in the vertical position.
Why do you ask?
I want to know when I start to get some sag in the front rubber shocks. As I have posted I have a shimmy in my main wheels. I talked to Ken and Van at Oshkosh and they both said that shimmy in the main gears is common. Van said that he had it as well and unfortunately there is not much I can do for toe-in. I have talked to a few people about the design of the main gear and it is far from being optimal. Van's words to me was that it is not the optimal design for stiffness but they are inexpensive to manufacture. That is OK and I don't feel like it is a safety issue.
Ken did say that you could re-align your gears and use a 7/16" bolt if you wanted to try and change the toe-in.
Another factor that changes over time is the sag in the front gear which changes the geometry of the toe-in as the front gear begins to drop.
Both the front gear leg sag and the application of the brakes causes more toe-out to occur.
Depending on the results we get I may try to replace the front rubber bumpers. I will also call Ken and try to get an engineered measurement.
Anyway, it is a number I wish I gathered before my first flight and tracked it every year. Maybe we can decide on what an average number is.
Of course the prop will have to be the same size or we could just measure from the center of the spinner down.
I will be at the hanger in the next night or two and will make the measurement.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
[quote][b]
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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If anyone decides to try and change the toe in give me a call. We did change the toe in on my Glastar and the tires do not wear the outsides as the 10 does. The original procedure for alignment on the Glastar provided 3 degrees per side although the documentation specified procedure should have produced 1/3 degree. We looked at the problem of toe in on the 10. One would have to jack the aircraft and rotate the gear in the socket slightly and re drill for a 7/16" bolt after using a pencil laser for measurement.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:08 PM
To: RV-10 List
Subject: Nose Strut / Tires
I wanted to see if we could get some data on the distance between the prop and the ground when the prop is in the vertical position.
Why do you ask?
I want to know when I start to get some sag in the front rubber shocks. As I have posted I have a shimmy in my main wheels. I talked to Ken and Van at Oshkosh and they both said that shimmy in the main gears is common. Van said that he had it as well and unfortunately there is not much I can do for toe-in. I have talked to a few people about the design of the main gear and it is far from being optimal. Van's words to me was that it is not the optimal design for stiffness but they are inexpensive to manufacture. That is OK and I don't feel like it is a safety issue.
Ken did say that you could re-align your gears and use a 7/16" bolt if you wanted to try and change the toe-in.
Another factor that changes over time is the sag in the front gear which changes the geometry of the toe-in as the front gear begins to drop.
Both the front gear leg sag and the application of the brakes causes more toe-out to occur.
Depending on the results we get I may try to replace the front rubber bumpers. I will also call Ken and try to get an engineered measurement.
Anyway, it is a number I wish I gathered before my first flight and tracked it every year. Maybe we can decide on what an average number is.
Of course the prop will have to be the same size or we could just measure from the center of the spinner down.
I will be at the hanger in the next night or two and will make the measurement.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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[b]
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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If it helps I remember the Decathlon at 2 degrees toe in and 2 degrees bottom in.
[quote] ---
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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David McNeill wrote:
| Quote: | If anyone decides to try and change the toe in give me a call. We did
change the toe in on my Glastar and the tires do not wear the outsides
as the 10 does. The original procedure for alignment on the Glastar
provided 3 degrees per side although the documentation specified
procedure should have produced 1/3 degree. We looked at the problem of
toe in on the 10. One would have to jack the aircraft and rotate the
gear in the socket slightly and re drill for a 7/16" bolt after using a
pencil laser for measurement.
David, would you elaborate on the laser part?
|
For those of us that haven't drilled the gear .... what should we do???
Linn
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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I will describe the Glastar procedure. To determine the actual toe in we
hung the aircraft on jacks and tail stand so that it was level a few inches
off the floor. Using a plumb bob we dropped a line from the elevator of the
aircraft perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. We also
measured the distance between the outboard faces of the main wheels. At that
point we shot a laser from a pencil laser taped to the outboard face of the
main wheels to the line below the aft elevator edge. At that point , if toe
in/out were zero we would have traced a large rectangle on the floor of the
hangar. What we had was a trapezoid where the base (aft ) was 115"(?) and
the top was 95"(?). By measuring the height (distance between main gear line
and elevator line we could determine the angles at the base and figure the
toe in/out. In our case it was toe in. IIRC the base angles were computed to
be about 87 degrees which meant that the toe in was 3 degrees. Because the
measurements are large , any angular error is reduced. We then (after
removing the bolt) rotated the gear leg in the socket and formed a near
rectangle on the hangar floor. At that point we clamp the gear legs in the
sockets, and proceeded to use a pencil grinder to open the weldment in the
direction of the needed adjustment. When sufficient material had been
removed we used a upsized drill ream to create d a new hole for a larger
bolt.
--
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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Thanks David!
Linn .... do not archive
David McNeill wrote:
[quote]
I will describe the Glastar procedure. To determine the actual toe in we
hung the aircraft on jacks and tail stand so that it was level a few inches
off the floor. Using a plumb bob we dropped a line from the elevator of the
aircraft perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft. We also
measured the distance between the outboard faces of the main wheels. At that
point we shot a laser from a pencil laser taped to the outboard face of the
main wheels to the line below the aft elevator edge. At that point , if toe
in/out were zero we would have traced a large rectangle on the floor of the
hangar. What we had was a trapezoid where the base (aft ) was 115"(?) and
the top was 95"(?). By measuring the height (distance between main gear line
and elevator line we could determine the angles at the base and figure the
toe in/out. In our case it was toe in. IIRC the base angles were computed to
be about 87 degrees which meant that the toe in was 3 degrees. Because the
measurements are large , any angular error is reduced. We then (after
removing the bolt) rotated the gear leg in the socket and formed a near
rectangle on the hangar floor. At that point we clamp the gear legs in the
sockets, and proceeded to use a pencil grinder to open the weldment in the
direction of the needed adjustment. When sufficient material had been
removed we used a upsized drill ream to create d a new hole for a larger
bolt.
--
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: Nose Strut / Tires |
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I might also add that this procedure was developed under the watchful eye of
a retired GM suspension engineer and fellow pilot. The Glastar people
continued to insist that their plans and procedure worked properly. Ask any
Glastar owner for an evaluation of tire wear
--
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