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tc1917(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: hours vs experience

I am very unhappy with the way the list has apparently construed the fact 

that you need lots of hours vs time flying to be of any value on your 

advice.  I would and do listen to the man with one hour flying as well as 

the man with ten thousand hours.  Each has their own distinct idea of what 

happened, how to cure it and should be accorded the same attention.  To 

insist a man has the ten thousand hours to have his advice honored is 

ludicrous.  Never demean a man for his concept or perceptions based on how 

many hours has he flown.  It might be two hours but experienced the same 

thing but has a different point of view that is valuable.  This is the 

greatest of the lists out there for advice, information and stories but I 

think you all lose site of what it is really is.  Ideas from EVERYONE.  The 

Kolb aircraft is different from all others.  It requires the input from ALL, 

not just a chosen few.  Some of the advice from the chosen few has been 

grossly incorrect for times nowdays.  Things change.  Please elicit advice 

and information from everyone.    Now, that filter for eighty bucks might be 

the cats meow but if you have hard fuel lines, black so you cannot see what 

is going through them, and a fuel filter you cannot see through, no glass or 

insight as to the condition of the fuel going to your carbs, you may 

experience the off field landings that you all brag about doing.   If you 

are using ethanol fuel in a tank that is older, it WILL clean the tank and 

put all the sediment on the bottom for your pump to pick up.  I have seen it 

happen several times, even on my motorcycle as of late.  That stuff looks 

like rust, has a lot of lead and other additives in it and WILL stop up a 

microfilter.  If you cannot see it before it does, you WILL be using your 

skills to survive.  The good part is your tank will be nice and clean which 

will only matter if you and your toy survive.  I will be using my sight 

glass filter and do check it all the time.  It has really saved my life 

several times.  Put your expensive filter on but you wont know when it is 

just close to being stopped up.  My opinion.  By the way, I only have a 

couple of thousand hours in a Kolb so it is not as good as advice as someone 

with ten thousand.  Ted Cowan.  Alabama  Kolb Slingshot 912 UL.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: hours vs experience

On the filter thing, I'm almost embarrassed to report my discovery.   

As you may remember I have been having mysterious fuel

problems.  -discolored, stale smelling gas, stuttering engine on  

climb out,  float needle hanging at start.

-well some good came of it,  I changed the line over to the newer  

ethanol resistant stuff,  Put a tee in for a temporary gauge.

Every spring I put in a new plastic auto zone filter with a decent  

sized reservoir bottom.



Don't buy the auto zone model made in china



When I cut the bottom off I discovered the element flopping around  

and the cement (epoxy, asphalt, old chewing gum?)

that was supposed to retain it had dried and crumbled and chunks were  

broken off.  Obviously some had gone downstream

to the pump and maybe the regulator.  -ethanol is not our friend  

except when mixed with hops  and malted barley.



I have a metal housing filter in for temporary. I'll buy a good one.

BB

BTW, had a nice ride last evening.  Seemed peppier with fuel getting  

into the float bowl 



On 15, Aug 2009, at 7:17 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am very unhappy with the way the list has apparently construed  

 the fact that you need lots of hours vs time flying to be of any  

 value on your advice.  I would and do listen to the man with one  

 hour flying as well as the man with ten thousand hours.  Each has  

 their own distinct idea of what happened, how to cure it and should  

 be accorded the same attention.  To insist a man has the ten  

 thousand hours to have his advice honored is ludicrous.  Never  

 demean a man for his concept or perceptions based on how many hours  

 has he flown.  It might be two hours but experienced the same thing  

 but has a different point of view that is valuable.  This is the  

 greatest of the lists out there for advice, information and stories  

 but I think you all lose site of what it is really is.  Ideas from  

 EVERYONE.  The Kolb aircraft is different from all others.  It  

 requires the input from ALL, not just a chosen few.  Some of the  

 advice from the chosen few has been grossly incorrect for times  

 nowdays.  Things change.  Please elicit advice and information from  

 everyone.    Now, that filter for eighty bucks might be the cats  

 meow but if you have hard fuel lines, black so you cannot see what  

 is going through them, and a fuel filter you cannot see through, no  

 glass or insight as to the condition of the fuel going to your  

 carbs, you may experience the off field landings that you all brag  

 about doing.   If you are using ethanol fuel in a tank that is  

 older, it WILL clean the tank and put all the sediment on the  

 bottom for your pump to pick up.  I have seen it happen several  

 times, even on my motorcycle as of late.  That stuff looks like  

 rust, has a lot of lead and other additives in it and WILL stop up  

 a microfilter.  If you cannot see it before it does, you WILL be  

 using your skills to survive.  The good part is your tank will be  

 nice and clean which will only matter if you and your toy survive.   

 I will be using my sight glass filter and do check it all the  

 time.  It has really saved my life several times.  Put your  

 expensive filter on but you wont know when it is just close to  

 being stopped up.  My opinion.  By the way, I only have a couple of  

 thousand hours in a Kolb so it is not as good as advice as someone  

 with ten thousand.  Ted Cowan.  Alabama  Kolb Slingshot 912 UL.

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: hours vs experience

In a message dated 8/15/2009 7:41:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  tc1917(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Never    demean a man for his concept or perceptions based on how 

many hours has he    flown.  It might be two hours but experienced the same 

thing but has    a different point of view that is valuable. 	


 

 I wholeheartedly agree. I made a comment yesterday inquiring what the  hell a "billet" is and was duly informed correctly by someone who knew whereof  he spoke. That person, no matter his flight time or experience level,  spoke from experience gained in a shop or through discipline to read &  learn.

  

 What I'm saying is that a person with Zero hours of flight time can be a  worthy contributor to the forum.

  

 Bill Catalina

 31 "years" flying ultralights...with no BRS.

  

 "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: hours vs experience

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am very unhappy with the way the list has apparently construed the fact 

 that you need lots of hours vs time flying to be of any value on your 

 advice.


	


By the way, I only have a

 	  Quote: 	
		   couple of thousand hours in a Kolb so it is not as good as advice as 

 someone with ten thousand.  Ted Cowan.  Alabama  Kolb Slingshot 912 UL.


	




Ted C:



Now I am confused.  I don't know whether to replace the hour meter in my 

mkIII with a "year meter" or an "experience meter".



To keep track of time for maintenance purposes, service life, etc., which 

meter do you recommend I use?



I realize this has nothing to do with your new subject, "hours vs 

experience", but neither did my attempt to get folks to use "hours" instead 

of "years" when it came to use and reliability of Mikuni fuel pumps.



Most of us pull maintenance on our cars and trucks using mileage off the 

odometer.



Off road equipment and airplane, I use hours, not years, to keep track of 

usage.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

dalewhelan

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 105
Location: USA ARIZONA fountain hills

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Re: hours vs experience

Hi guys, I am relatively new this forum. I started flying sailplanes in 1974 went to general aviation in 1978, Flew hanggliders in 1982,got my Kolb in 2008.

Sounds like I have been flying for 35 years and you should acknowledge me as a sky god.

Here is the rest of the story

As of 1/29/1981 I had logged 7 hours

the past year I have logged about 100 hours.

I have met people that spent years and hours flying around the field. I think they still lack experience.

I have been ridiculed by people on this site when I was looking for answers.

I have talked to somebody in the industry about this site.

The opinion seems to be that there is good info to be found here.

The bad thing is the way new people are often treated on this site. The treatment is such that newcomers could be driven away from an informative site and possibly a great occupation.

I have received email from forum members talking about the elitist mentality they have run into.

To me it seemed like financial suicide for an industry insider to post on this site. The bickering could be directed at their business and customers lost.

Sometimes I read the posts and it seems that people are abusive to others that don't bow to them, often through the use of sarcasm.

It seems some folks want you to bow to them as the sky god even if they are wrong.While I enjoy the varied view and opinions, I am not fond of  publically calling someone who has a different opinion an idiot.

Johns comment about hours vs years seems accurate. If you look for more meaning than what he said you will find it, just realize those are your words that were added.

I actively road raced motorcycles for 25 years. Won numerous races, have close to a dozen championships, have thousands of miles on road courses. I had done more after 3 years than people with 20 years of riding and lots more miles due to the environment I rode in. Two years ago a 14 year old girl beat me in a road race. I was riding an 80 horsepower 250, she was on a 45 horsepower 125.

People with airplanes are more fun to talk to than people with computers.

_________________
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II, Luscombe 8A
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept

Arty Trost

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: hours vs experience

I have a slightly different twist on Ted's perspective, when he writes: "I would and do listen to the man with one hour flying as well as the man with ten thousand hours. Each has their own distinct idea of what happened...and should be accorded the same attention."



I agree that you should hear out everyone, regardless of their level of experience. However, if a person with one hour is giving advice, and a person with significantly more hours is giving advice, I know that I'll actually give far more credence to the person with  significantly more hours. That's true in almost any walk of life - as you pile up experience, people listen to you  more. 

In some circumstances, hours and experience are not automatically correlated. We all know people who don't learn from their experiences, and therefore make the same mistakes over and over. I don't listen to people who have shown that - regardless of their # of hours - they haven't much wisdom to share.

Another example are people who take one aspect of their extensive experience and assume that makes them an expert on everything. For instance, I have lots of hours, but as PIC it's been almost all in one ultralight. So I don't have experience with lots of different aircraft. If the subject is comparisons of flying characteristics of different aircraft, all my hours of experience won't add to the conversation, and someone with far fewer hours but more varied PIC experience would have better information.  

Likewise, someone who has never flown more than 50 miles from  their own airfield doesn't have the level of experience as someone who has done long distance flying, regardless of their number of hours. 

I don't think that this list "insists that a man has the ten thousand hours to have his advice honored..."  I think that this list is astoundingly fortunate to  have people with not only lots of hours but also greatly varied experience during those hours of flying, who are thoughtful and able to analyze their experience so to make it useful to those of us with less experience. And we also have others on this list with far fewer hours who have given lots of good advice to this list. Sometimes they're in disagreement with the ten thousand hour guys, and we get a good, robust discussion. 

Does that mean I can't learn from a low hour pilot who has limited experience in where he's flown? Absolutely not. But frankly, someone with less than ten hours isn't someone who has much to teach - they're still at the bottom of a learning curve. Hopefully, they "teach"through their questions...by asking those of us with lots of hours to explain our reasoning, we can gain more insight ourselves. But I don't take their advice and information as seriously as someone with hundreds of  hours. 

What SI of great concern to me is that some newcomers experience our list as elitist and unfriendly to newcomers. Dale Whelan wrote that he's been ridiculed when he asked questions.  To me, that's unforgivable. We ought to remember that NONE of us was born knowing how to fly or do repairs or navigate, etc. So taking a "doesn't everyone know that" attitude is something that we should guard against. Answer the questions - there's always someone lurking who will gain from it. And I know that I am still in a learning mode, and I don't remember everything I've learned years ago - so it's helpful for us old-timer, high hour folks as well.

Arty Trost

Maxair Drifter

Sandy, Oregon



www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com

 

 "Life's a daring adventure or nothing"

                       Helen Keller

 

 "I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."



--- On Sat, 8/15/09, Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

[quote]

From: Ted Cowan <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: hours vs experience

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 4:17 AM



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ted Cowan" <tc1917(at)bellsouth.net>



I am very unhappy with the way the list has apparently construed the fact that you need lots of hours vs time flying to be of any value on your advice.  I would and do listen to the man with one hour flying as well as the man with ten thousand hours.  Each has their own distinct idea of what happened, how to cure it and should be  accorded the same attention.  To insist a man has the ten thousand hours to have his advice honored is ludicrous.  Never demean a man for his concept or perceptions based on how many hours has he flown.  It might be two hours but experienced the same thing but has a different point of view that is valuable.  This is the greatest of the lists out there for advice, information and stories but I think you all lose site of what it is really is.  Ideas from EVERYONE.  The Kolb aircraft is different from all others.  It requires the input from ALL, not just a chosen few.  Some of the advice from the chosen few has been grossly incorrect for times nowdays.  Things change.  Please elicit advice and information from everyone.    Now, that filter for eighty bucks might be the cats meow but if you have hard fuel lines, black so you cannot see what is going through them, and a fuel filter you cannot see  through, no glass or insight as to the condition of the fuel going to your carbs, you may experience the off field landings that you all brag about doing.   If you are using ethanol fuel in a tank that is older, it WILL clean the tank and put all the sediment on the bottom for your pump to pick up.  I have seen it happen several times, even on my motorcycle as of late.  That stuff looks like rust, has a lot of lead and other additives in it and WILL stop up a microfilter.  If you cannot see it before it does, you WILL be using your skills to survive.  The good part is your tank will be nice and clean which will only matter if you and your toy survive.  I will be using my sight glass filter and do check it all the time.  It has really saved my life several times.  Put your expensive filter on but you wont know when it is just close to being stopped up.  My opinion.  By the way, I only have a  couple of thousand hours in a Kolb so it is not as good as advice as someone with ten thousand.  Ted Cowan.  Alabama  Kolb Slingshot 912 UL. 

ht=                      --> 



 [quote][b]

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: hours vs experience

 	  Quote: 	
		  Ted C:



Now I am confused.  I don't know whether to replace the hour meter in my mkIII with a "year meter" or an "experience meter".



	




With all this confusion, I updated my hours in my profile so my experience in a Kolb reflects how long that I've been flying them. Not as long as some, but more than others. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be giving advice. What do you think?

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

Ralph, give it! No one is forced to take it. The intelligent ones will.

On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Ralph B wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> Ted C:

>

> Now I am confused.  I don't know whether to replace the hour meter  

> in my mkIII with a "year meter" or an "experience meter".

 With all this confusion, I updated my hours in my profile so my  

 experience in a Kolb reflects how long that I've been flying them.  

 Not as long as some, but more than others. I don't know, maybe I  

 shouldn't be giving advice. What do you think?

 --------

 Ralph B

 Original Firestar 447

 N91493 E-AB

 960 hours

 22 years flying it

 Kolbra 912UL

 N20386

 1 year flying it

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 57902#257902

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

> With all this confusion, I updated my hours in my profile so my 

experience in a Kolb reflects how long that I've been flying them. Not as 

long as some, but more than others. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be 

giving advice. What do you think?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 --------

 Ralph B

 Original Firestar 447

 N91493 E-AB

 960 hours

 22 years flying it

 Kolbra 912UL

 N20386

 1 year flying it


	


Ralph B:



I don't give advice.



I wouldn't feel too good about advising someone to do something to or with 

their Kolb, then they out and bust their butt.



I share the good and the bad.



Folks can take it or leave it for what it is worth.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

There have been some well meaning and well written comments. But,,,,,,,I 

never saw anything said by anyone that we should have X hours to give 

advice. I think there was a misunderstanding of what was written. Someone 

got his nose out of joint but there was nothing to get worked up over. I 

think the whole issue hours vs. years is a chest pounding display of one 

upmanship but I'm not one of the top dogs so I would.



Why don't we just move on.



Remember there is only one stupid question and it is the one that doesn't 

get asked. Also the advise given is best when it is given "to help others".



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

funderp47

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Location: NC

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:23 am Post subject: Re: Fuel filter from Hrs/vs experience thread

I'm a barely computer literate lurker that reads this list. Bob Bean's post below this one caught my eye.  I posted this on another list recently:

I also use a Fram G1. I get them from Tractor Supply, but they don't always

have them. I buy extras when they do and save them.



A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the paper media

was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a Purolator, and

the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come loose

and was just floating around. The canister was full of fuel, even though it was

vertical on the suction side above the tank. A G1 in that position will have

very little fuel in it by its design, and makes for a good filter clogging

indicator if it starts filling up.



We replaced it with one of my Frams. He shut it down before takeoff, and when I

walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine. A piece of paper

fuzz from the unglued element was in a carb's needle/seat and caused the bowl to

overflow and he saw it. I guess that's one advantage to a tractor style with a

high engine.



A G1 has metal caps on each end of the filter paper media, and the little

miniature filter is held (wedged) in place by standoffs made into the plastic

housing.



Phil

 	  slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: 	
		  On the filter thing, I'm almost embarrassed to report my discovery.   

As you may remember I have been having mysterious fuel

problems.  -discolored, stale smelling gas, stuttering engine on  

climb out,  float needle hanging at start.

-well some good came of it,  I changed the line over to the newer  

ethanol resistant stuff,  Put a tee in for a temporary gauge.

Every spring I put in a new plastic auto zone filter with a decent  

sized reservoir bottom.



Don't buy the auto zone model made in china



When I cut the bottom off I discovered the element flopping around  

and the cement (epoxy, asphalt, old chewing gum?)

that was supposed to retain it had dried and crumbled and chunks were  

broken off.  Obviously some had gone downstream

to the pump and maybe the regulator.  -ethanol is not our friend  

except when mixed with hops  and malted barley.



I have a metal housing filter in for temporary. I'll buy a good one.

BB

BTW, had a nice ride last evening.  Seemed peppier with fuel getting  

into the float bowl 



	
[/quote]

Fran Losey

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:42 am Post subject: hours vs experience

Well put Rick.  



As a newbie to this list, I monitor because I want to hear the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to building, operating and maintaining the Kolb.  My goal is to always approach dialog in "sponge" mode, trying to soak up and learn from every person I interact with, hopeful that I may be able to return the favor someday.  



Granted, a good cross check of information received should be in order, but for the most part I appreciate when persons share experiences and information that I am unfamiliar with, as I am clearly learning, and strive to be a safe and knowledgeable builder, operator, and owner.  My gratitude to those who provide such unselfish service.  Please keep up the good work.



Fran Losey



---

_________________
Fran Losey
N62FL (reserved)

loseyf@comcast.net

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel filter from Hrs/vs experience thread

 	  funderp47 wrote: 	
		  



A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the paper media

was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a Purolator, and

the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come loose

and was just floating around.  He shut it down before takeoff, and when I

walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine. 



	




Given the many stories like this, and the EAA's statistics which say that about half of all engine failures in experimental airplanes are caused by fuel system problems, I can not imagine you guys continuing to screw around with 3 dollar lawn mower filters on your planes.   



The fuel filter that Aircraft spruce sells with its aluminum housing Never breaks, cracks, or get soft due to ethanol or water. Stainless Steel mesh element also impervious to ethanol and water, and does a much better job of filtering out debris from the fuel than Paper for fiber ever will. I have two of these filters in two airplanes, my carb bowls are always so clean I could drink wine out of them if I wanted to  



The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars, but it is designed to be cleaned and lasts forever.   The Aircraft spruce filter is not anywhere near as expensive as having an engine failure and off field landing with aircraft damage due to clogged or faulty cheap filter that can fail in any number of ways...   That alone is more than enough reason for me to get a use a good quality filter in my Kolb.  Not everyone knows these facts about filters, there is always something to be learned, but having read this you now have the information you need...  If you hurt yourself in the forced landing as well as tear up your plane due to a cheap plastic filter, you will really wish you had not tried to save a few bucks at the expense of safety...  



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/micron10.php 



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: hours vs experience

To the man who owns a hammer all the world's a nail.

Rick Girard

do not archive

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:01 PM, JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>

 funderp47 wrote:

 >

 >

 > A friend landed with his Phantom a few months ago, and I noticed the paper media

 > was just sloshing around inside his G1 looking filter. It was a Purolator, and

 > the paper was simply glued to the outlet end of the canister. It had come loose

 > and was just floating around.  He shut it down before takeoff, and when I

 > walked over, he said gas was dripping down from the engine.

 >

 >

 Given the many stories like this, and the EAA's statistics which say that about half of all engine failures in experimental airplanes are caused by fuel system problems, I can imagine you guys continuing to screw around with 3 dollar lawn mower filters on your planes.

 The fuel filter that Aircraft spruce sells with its aluminum housing Never breaks, cracks, or get soft due to ethanol or water. Stainless Steel mesh element also impervious to ethanol and water, and does a much better job of filtering out debris from the fuel than Paper for fiber ever will. I have two of these filters in two airplanes, my carb bowls are always so clean I could drink wine out of them if I wanted to

 The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars, but it is designed to be cleaned and lasts forever.   The Aircraft spruce filter is not anywhere near as expensive as having an engine failure and off field landing with aircraft damage due to clogged or faulty cheap filter that can fail in any number of ways...   That alone is more than enough reason for me to get a use a good quality filter in my Kolb.  Not everyone knows these facts about filters, there is always something to be learned, but having read this you now have the information you need...  If you hurt yourself in the forced landing as well as tear up your plane due to a cheap plastic filter, you will really wish you had been a little smarter...

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/micron10.php

 Mike

 --------

 "NO FEAR" -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=257999#257999

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

> The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike


	




Mike B:



If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these $80.00 fuel 

filters installed in my old mkIII.  Since I am an old retiree, tired, broke, 

and disoriented, I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have 

used since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984.  Only mod I did to it 

was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an appropriately sized 

piece of aluminum tubing.  Reason:  Glass cylinder cracked first night of 

installation.  I either installed it incorrectly, or it was a bad one.  John 

W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never had a problem 

with it.  It has had a lot of fuel pumped through it in the last 4,000 + 

hours.  About once every 50 to 100 hours I check the little nylon element to 

see how much crud I have collected.  Always going to be some in there.  If 

it is not too dirty, I blow it out best I can, and get another 50 to 100 

hours out of it.  Depending on the length of the next flight, I'll take one 

or a couple spare elements with me.  Easy to change out in a matter of 

minutes.



In 2,800 + 912 engine hours I have had the engine quit twice.  Both times in 

flight.  Once in Mississippi and one in Texas.  Once because I discovered 

the 912 will not run on water.  The other because the 912 will not run with 

a fuel filter element that is completely sealed with tiny nylon filiments 

that were washed out of a new fuel pump hose into my gas tank.  In either 

case, if I had had a D-10 Caterpiller fuel filter system, I would have still 

had to deal with a forced landing.  Reason:  Pilot error.  Each incident I 

did not drain fuel into a clear glass container and inspect it for water and 

contaminents after fueling and prior to takeoff.  A good record for engine. 

Bad record for pilot.  ;-(



These filters can still be purchased for around $10.00 or less.  The filter 

replacements come in packets of three elements and 6 rubber seals.  Takes 

two 1/2 inch wrenches to disassemble the filters.



Wow!  Looks like they are up to 13.99 before shipping.  The price of 

inflation.  Do a google search and come up with a cheaper source.  I post 

this here so you all can see what I am talking about.



http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:14 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

At 06:59 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>



 

 > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars

  	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike 	




 Mike B:



 If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these $80.00 fuel filters installed in my old mkIII.  Since I am "an old retiree, tired, broke, and disoriented", 	


 Read that "grumpy old man"..... I'm allowed, since I'm getting there too. (Is 58 old?) - & remember that crab diner I bought you at Etowah - before you answer.



  	  Quote: 	
		   I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have used since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984.  Only mod I did to it was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an appropriately sized piece of aluminum tubing.  Reason:  Glass cylinder cracked first night of installation.  I either installed it incorrectly - snip -or it was a bad one. 	


 Yes..... you did - mine never broke either - after 1,000 hrs and it is nice to look at it every time you 

 do a pre-flight and see that clear gas (or some crap in the filter) ..just makes me feel good!



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  John W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never had a problem with it. 



 john h

 mkIII 	


 And just to correct a pervious post - I have seen someone able to tear the wings off a FireStar "besides you"



 Unfortunately he didn't fare as well. "Hauck/Hawk" - what a perfect name for this kind of stuff.



 

     [quote][b]

_________________
Possum

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

John, Take a look at Jegs or Summit Racing. Lots of options for fuel filters from less that $10 to over $100. Most that offer a barb type fitting are 3/8" but a couple of reducers would take care of that. I think they have the "clearview" type for right around $10. 



Rick



On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:59 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 

 > The filter is at bit expensive at 80 dollars

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Mike

 	
 

 

 Mike B:

 

 If I was a young jet pilot, I probably would have one of these $80.00 fuel filters installed in my old mkIII.  Since I am an old retiree, tired, broke, and disoriented, I am going to keep using the same old fuel filter I have used since first installed on my Ultrastar in 1984.  Only mod I did to it was get rid of the glass cylinder and replace it with an appropriately sized piece of aluminum tubing.  Reason:  Glass cylinder cracked first night of installation.  I either installed it incorrectly, or it was a bad one.  John W used the same type filter with the glass cylinder and never had a problem with it.  It has had a lot of fuel pumped through it in the last 4,000 + hours.  About once every 50 to 100 hours I check the little nylon element to see how much crud I have collected.  Always going to be some in there.  If it is not too dirty, I blow it out best I can, and get another 50 to 100 hours out of it.  Depending on the length of the next flight, I'll take one or a couple spare elements with me.  Easy to change out in a matter of minutes.

  

 In 2,800 + 912 engine hours I have had the engine quit twice.  Both times in flight.  Once in Mississippi and one in Texas.  Once because I discovered the 912 will not run on water.  The other because the 912 will not run with a fuel filter element that is completely sealed with tiny nylon filiments that were washed out of a new fuel pump hose into my gas tank.  In either case, if I had had a D-10 Caterpiller fuel filter system, I would have still had to deal with a forced landing.  Reason:  Pilot error.  Each incident I did not drain fuel into a clear glass container and inspect it for water and contaminents after fueling and prior to takeoff.  A good record for engine. Bad record for pilot.  ;-(

  

 These filters can still be purchased for around $10.00 or less.  The filter replacements come in packets of three elements and 6 rubber seals.  Takes two 1/2 inch wrenches to disassemble the filters.

 

 Wow!  Looks like they are up to 13.99 before shipping.  The price of inflation.  Do a google search and come up with a cheaper source.  I post this here so you all can see what I am talking about.

 

 http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-15032-purolator-pro-fuel-fuel-line-filter-for-516-fuel-lines-805.aspx

  

 john h

 mkIII 

 

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 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

Possum:

  

 I caught that previously, but kept my mouth  shut.  Didn't want to hurt your feelings and watch you get your panties in  a wad over it.  

  

 Yes, that has been a while ago, over 19 years  now.  Time is flying.  Was a sad day.  Happened about two months  after mine, May 1990, I think.  

  

 Well...we have done a lot of flying since  then.  What a guy he was!!!  Wish he was still around.

  

 john h - My call sign in RVN was Hawk  36.

 mkIII

  

  And just to correct a pervious post - I have seen someone able  to tear the wings off a FireStar "besides you"



Unfortunately he  didn't fare as well. "Hauck/Hawk" - what a perfect name for this kind of  stuff.

 

   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: hours vs experience

Most of my engine instruments come from  Summit.  My landing light came from Summit.

  

 I posted info on the Purolator for the benefit of  those that did not know about that type filter.

  

 My old one is still good.  I am so happy they  still make them and the elements.  

  

 Mine has 5/16 barbs, but pushes in 1/4 Gates  neoprene line pretty easy. 

  

 A lot of folks on this List like clear fuel line so  they can see their fuel.

  

 I use black neoprene for fuel, but thinking about  getting some clear tubing for my oil lines.  Be nice to have something to  watch.  

  

 Thanks, Rick G.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    

John, Take a look at Jegs or Summit    Racing. Lots of options for fuel filters from less that $10 to over $100. Most    that offer a barb type fitting are 3/8" but a couple of reducers would take    care of that. I think they have the "clearview" type for right around $10.   



   Rick

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:31 am Post subject: hours vs experience

I wasn't going to get into this possibly volitile conversation about fuel  filters but I had to add my two cents worth...for what that's worth &  something tells me it ain't going to be worth much.

  

 Been flying these contraptions since summer of '78 or '79...hell, I forgot  but it's been a long damn time. Everything from a Sachs, to a Yamaha 15hp (what  a piece of crap that was), to a Cuyuna (another piece of crap), to the wonderful  world of Rotax.

  

 I never gave an ounce of attention to fuel filters & never had any  trouble with fuel filters. So what in the heck is all this talk  about?

 

  [quote][b]

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