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jvanlaak(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
--
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the
practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an
admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright
stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught
aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes?
I caught the 140 comment too. I can't really comment on that because I
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was guilty too. My first aerobatic airplane was a utility category
airplane .... with spins prohibited. I was young and foolish. Now I'm
a lot older and a little wiser .... and I've found that those that do as
I did ..... really don't care to listen so it's wasted breath.
Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I've lost quite a number of friends, most of them doing stupid pilot
tricks ..... and I don't have that many friends left. I'm just joining
this RV community and am adding to my friends list ..... but friend or
not, the loss of an aviator pains me.
| Quote: |
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year
for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a
source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2
RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics,
buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport
aviation a big disservice.
Absolutely! And it leaves grieving families and friends behind and
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increases the cost of flying for the rest of us. As for self taught, I
think it's a poor choice for entry into the aerobatics field ..... but
done with considerable planning .... and most importantly considerable
altitude ..... it is survivable. Just this past week we lost Vicki
Cruse, a highly capable aerobatic pilot and IAC president. If the best
can't survive, where do the 'weekend warrior' aerobatic pilots fit in???
Linn
do not archive
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the
practicality of?opening the canopy when the thread began with an
admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright
stupid act).? Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught
aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes?? Haven't
we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
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I was hoping the not-so-subtle underlying theme of my post about exiting
an RV would be the folly of self-taught aerobatics............
Sam Buchanan
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mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart C it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon C 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general C let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track C but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's C 2 RV-6's C and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics C buzz jobs C and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
--
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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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No one like to see anyone hurt or die in any airplane let alone RV's,
having said that what is your concern about the FAAs reaction. If you
take total hours flown per year
in RV's compared to other aircraft the accident rate pers hours flown is
not to bad. Of course any at all is bad, but I am basing this on your
comment.
jvanlaak(at)aol.com wrote:
[quote] Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the
practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an
admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright
stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught
aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we
lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year
for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a
source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2
RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics,
buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport
aviation a big disservice.
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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RV6ator(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Loop problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
| Quote: | Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........ 
Sam Buchanan
|
I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"
But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. |
[quote][b]
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rveighta(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Jeez, here we go again, off to the races!
---
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD
BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I
CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF
OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND
BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
|
There may be some members of this list who are not acquainted with Mike
Robertson. Mike is an employee of the FAA and has demonstrated many
times on this list his knowledge of the FARS.
Also, using all caps in an email message is generally frowned upon in
the internet community and often calls into question the credibility of
the poster.
Now back to your scheduled programming..... 
Sam Buchanan
=======================
| Quote: |
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I
agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
|
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Terry Watson
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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I predict you will regret both the remarks and the attitude. Just a prediction…
Terry
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:11 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
[quote]
Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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dsvs(at)ca.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Sam beat me to the punch. I will add another comment. Maybe you should just go find another list.
Don Van Santen
RV&7 Flying
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:11 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
[quote]
Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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bmeyette
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Cornish, NH
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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i think there are much more rational and polite ways to express yourself.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:11 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Loop problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
| Quote: | Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........
Sam Buchanan
|
I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"
But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. |
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 270.13.72/2337 - Release Date: 08/31/09 05:50:00 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Brian Meyette, Cornish, NH
RV-7A QB tipup, supercharged Subaru STi engine, MT CS prop, all glass day/night/IFR panel, being built with solar and wind power
N432MM
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm |
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tim.randles(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Revoke posting privileges, delete account, kthx.
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:10 PM, <RV6ator(at)aol.com (RV6ator(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com (mrobert569(at)hotmail.com) writes:
| Quote: | Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com (jvanlaak(at)aol.com)
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Loop problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
| Quote: | Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........
Sam Buchanan
|
I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"
But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. |
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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at6c(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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When you speak with apparent authority the wrath of the list is your
problem.
--
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n343fd(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Yep I am sure someone learned something from that post ... like ... O ... I don't know ... how about ... you have bad people skills at best and you are a jerk (to put it mildly) at worst.
Mike Divan
N64GH - RV6 (flying)
http://n64gh.blogspot.com/
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!
Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"!
From: "RV6ator(at)aol.com" <RV6ator(at)aol.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Loop problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
| Quote: | Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........
Sam Buchanan
|
I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"
But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. |
[quote]
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n343fd(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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I seem to remember some dude doing a bunch of "aerobatic Maneuver's" in an Aero Commander. Now is a Aero Commander "certified for aerobatics"? Now what was his name ... O yea BOB HOVER. Would you call him a "DW" or a "Adam Henry"? I would call him one of the greatest pilots I have had the pleasure of watching perform.
As for Charlie
Sorry you got such a phyco response to your question. It might be a good idea to get some lessons from a pro when learning about aerobatics in anything (you actually loped a 140 - yikes). I get lessons for spins, rolls and ... well that is about as far as I have gone so far and it will be a long time before I do them alone. I want to make sure I do not end up a statistic and that I understand and can recover from any mistakes. With me and the instructor we depart with minimum fuel to stay below the weight limit but I do not last long any way. So far it has not been the fuel that ended the lessons it is my ability to get motion sick real fast  ALTHOUGH I last a little longer each time and it is a blast even if I do end up a little on the green side every time.
Have fun but for heaven sake be safe.
Mike Divan
N64GH - RV6 (flying)
http://n64gh.blogspot.com/
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE - THANK THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOURS!
Remember it is the Solder, Sailor, Airman, Marine and Cost Guard that guarantee your freedom NOT the "community organizer"!
From: "RV6ator(at)aol.com" <RV6ator(at)aol.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart, it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general, let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track, but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's, 2 RV-6's, and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics, buzz jobs, and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Panama Red <panamared505(at)brier.net>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: Loop problem
--> RV-List message posted by: "Panama Red" <panamared505(at)brier.net (panamared505(at)brier.net)>
| Quote: | Very unlikely you would ever be able to get out of the RV-6A........
Sam Buchanan
|
I have often thought this about my RV6. Opening the canopy in normal flight beyond about 2 inches is next to impossible. I mentioned this to a retired USAF F-4 Driver and his response was "It depends upon how motivated you are!"
But the caution about having plenty of altitude is good. It will give you more time to try and regain control even if you don't think you can bail out. The IAC requires parachutes in competiton, so I use one regardless of what I think its usefullness might be. And who knows, if I loose control in an inverted flat spin and can't regain control, maybe I will be able to open the canopy.
Bob
RV6 "Wicked Witch of the West"
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. |
[quote]
[b]
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Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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WTF?
Please go back on your medications.
-N1GV (non-psycho RV-6A driver)
In a message dated 8/31/2009 4:21:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, RV6ator(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
|
[quote][b]
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Charles Heathco
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Hey, Forget this whole thing!!! No reason to act like or speak like this!!!!
[quote] ---
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mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it C just whether it was legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without training C even in an RV6ator C but if I tried to take them to task I would have a very rough time.
Mike Robertson
Federal Asshole please
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Mon C 31 Aug 2009 19:10:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
HEY DICKWEED C A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER C AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS C LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY C KNOCK YOURSELF OUT C BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time C mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
[quote]Show me in the regs where looping a Cherokee 140 is illegal. While I agree it may not be smart C it is not illegal.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
Date: Mon C 31 Aug 2009 17:14:11 -0400
From: jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Interesting to note the way this discussion has wended its way to the practicality of opening the canopy when the thread began with an admission of looping Cherokee 140's (a totally illegal and downright stupid act). Why has nobody commented on the wisdom of self-taught aerobatics in general C let alone in uncertified airplanes? Haven't we lost enough friends to such shenanegans?
I don't know how many are keeping track C but this has been a bad year for RV accidents. I get to see the FAA reaction and it is becoming a source of concern to me. I have owned 5 RVs in my life (2 RV-3's C 2 RV-6's C and an RV-4) and loved them all. But self taught aerobatics C buzz jobs C and other completely avoidable accidents do all of sport aviation a big disservice.
--
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sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Mike, we appreciate having you here on the list! Even if your first RV is somewhere on the bottom of the ocean near Hawaii Don't be put off by the ill-manners of some. You are a welcome member of the community, and your restraint is admirable.
-Bill
RV-6A that's never been looped.
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com (mrobert569(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Excuse me but when did I ever call anyone a name. And you will also note I did not say whether I or anyone else should do it, just whether it was legal. I do not endorse or recommend anyone doing any aerobatics without training, even in an RV6ator, but if I tried to take them to task I would have a very rough time.
Mike Robertson
Federal Asshole please
| Quote: | =========================
|
[b]
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Loop problem --- the rest of the story. |
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Bill, you've been around this list for many years and you know better than to behave like that. There is no call for that at all.
Mike is both a well respected aviator as well as a respected FAA employee.
Cheers,
Stein
do not archive this drivel.
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[quote] -----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV6ator(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:11 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Loop problem --- the rest of the story.
HEY DICKWEED, A LOOP IS AN AEROBATIC MANUEVER, AEROBATIC MANUEVERS SHOULD BE PERFORMED IN AIRCRAFT THAT IS CERTIFIED FOR AEROBATICS, LAST TIME I CHECKED A CHEROKEE WAS NOT APPROVED FOR AEROBATICS. BUT HEY, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, BETTER YET GO KILL YOURSELF. PLENTY OF ASSHOLES LIKE YOU HAVE CRASHED AND BURNED WITH INNOCENT PASSENGERS ONBOARD>
In a message dated 8/31/2009 6:48:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
[b]
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