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Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

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PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

I have completed some excellent Unusual Attitude training in a Cap-10 which included loops, rolls and spins and will soon complete additional aerobatic training.  Then I would like to try some of these aerobatics maneuvers in my RV-6.  However, I am a little concern that the gyro tumbling and/or G forces of aerobatics may hurt my instruments.  I have an AI, HSI and S-TEC autopilot all containing electric gyros and would hate to damage them.  What has been your experience with aerobatics and instrument damage?  Should I be concerned about this?

  

 Pete in Clearwater

 RV-6, Day/night IFR, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F

  [quote][b]

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

Good Evening Peter,

  

 As Always, It All Depends!  <G>

  

 Your S-Tec uses the canted gyro in the Turn Coordinator for it's sensing  device. That gyro will not be harmed by aerobatics. The attitude and heading  gyros MAY be damaged! There are many different designs and your best bet is to  check with the manufacturer of your instrumentation. Some of the newer  instruments are suitable for aerobatic use. There were some fully aerobatic  artificial horizons built about fifty years ago, but the pitch indication was  just the opposite of what is standard today. There are a few older gyros that  allow the gyros to be caged, but that is not a real good idea. It can keep the  gyro from banging the stops, but the bearings will still incur abnormal  wear.

  

 The best bet is to have a removable gyro panel to be used when not flying  aerobatics. A few of the professional aerobatic pilots have made such a set up  to save wear and tear during violent aerobatic flight.

  

 One more comment if you don't mind. 

  

 The turn Coordinator (as is used by S-Tec for sensing) is an abominable  instrument in that it never tells the truth. For use during aerobatics, I much  prefer a standard old fashioned Turn needle combined with an inclinometer  Ball.  The classic needle and ball.  It is the most reliable  directional instrument you can buy and it can be used for spin recovery as well  as unusual attitude recovery. A turn coordinator can provide confusing and  counterproductive indications during a spin recovery. However, neither the  T&B nor the TC will be damaged by doing such maneuvers.

  

 Many of the modern glass panels use solid state "gyros" that are not  damaged by aerobatics, but some will lose proper sensing.

  

 Any help at all?

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Downers Grove, Illinois

 LL22

 Stearman N3977A

  

  In a message dated 9/21/2009 9:22:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  PeterHunt1(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I have completed some excellent Unusual Attitude training in a Cap-10    which included loops, rolls and spins and will soon complete additional    aerobatic training.  Then I would like to try some of these aerobatics    maneuvers in my RV-6.  However, I am a little concern that the gyro    tumbling and/or G forces of aerobatics may hurt my instruments.  I    have an AI, HSI and S-TEC autopilot all containing electric gyros and would    hate to damage them.  What has been your experience with aerobatics and    instrument damage?  Should I be concerned about this?

    

   Pete in Clearwater

   RV-6, Day/night IFR, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

Absolutely you  should..Having said that the RV is a relatively gentle areobatic airplane. Then  again you have an IFR airplane..You really need your instruments.

  

 One option is to plan an  upgrade to a Dynon D100 and a trutrack A/P..These units are aerobatic proof.ask  me how I know...

  

 Oh and the RV 7 will spin  inverted..

  

 Frank



   From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  PeterHunt1(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:20  PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com;  RV6-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Aerobatics and  Instrument Damage

 

 I have completed some excellent Unusual Attitude training in a Cap-10 which  included loops, rolls and spins and will soon complete additional aerobatic  training.  Then I would like to try some of these aerobatics maneuvers in  my RV-6.  However, I am a little concern that the gyro tumbling and/or G  forces of aerobatics may hurt my instruments.  I have an AI, HSI and  S-TEC autopilot all containing electric gyros and would hate to damage  them.  What has been your experience with aerobatics and instrument  damage?  Should I be concerned about this?

  

 Pete in Clearwater

 RV-6, Day/night IFR, Reserve Grand Champion S 'n F

[quote]

[b]

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tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

I'm building an all electric RV and am also concerned about the gyros.  Could the solution be as simple as installing a switch (or 2 switches   )to power down the gyros when doing aerobatics?  I agree it's better to take them out of the airplane, but that's not an option for me.



Clear skies,

-Tom

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_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

Not a good idea for mechanical gyros, they might be damaged more if they 

do not spin then the other way round.



Werner (all electric including instruments)



tomcostanza wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm building an all electric RV and am also concerned about the gyros.  Could the solution be as simple as installing a switch (or 2 switches   )to power down the gyros when doing aerobatics?  I agree it's better to take them out of the airplane, but that's not an option for me.



 Clear skies,

 -Tom



 --------

 Clear Skies,

 Tom Costanza





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 64470#264470

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: Aerobatics and Instrument Damage

Good Morning Tom,

  

 Great Question! Wish I knew the answer. <G> 

  

 Once again, I think I would check with the manufacturer. 

  

 However, as a point of reference, our answer fifty years ago when most  gyros had a caging capability was to turn off the air before the flight and cage  the gyros. That seemed to be a good solution at the time. The caging lifted the  gyros off the stops, held them securely, and prevented banging of the gimbals.  By shutting off the air, the gyroscopic forces were eliminated. Some of the  instrument gurus of the day told us that the bearings and axles were still  subjected to loads for which they were not designed.

  

 The good thing about those days was that we could buy high quality WWII  surplus AN flight instruments at a fraction of their cost of manufacture.

  

 As I said earlier, the TC and T&B (S-Tec autopilots use a TC as a  sensor.} can handle any and all aerobatics comfortably No problem there at  all. 

  

 They are not harmed by aerobatics, but Attitude and Directional Gyros can  be.

  

  If you use a Bendix/King KG 102A compass system, aerobatics will damage it  rapidly.

  



 My WAG for the electric Attitude and Directional Gyros is that if you turn  them off before the flight so that the gyros are not spinning and restrain  yourself to a maximum of two or three G smooth aerobatics (No snap maneuvers),  the instruments will not be harmed.

  

 As Always, It All depends!

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Downers Grove, IL

 LL22

 Stearman N3977A

  

  In a message dated 9/23/2009 5:30:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "tomcostanza"    <Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



I'm building an all electric RV    and am also concerned about the gyros.  Could the solution be as simple    as installing a switch (or 2 switches   )to power down the gyros when    doing aerobatics?  I agree it's better to take them out of the airplane,    but that's not an option for me.



Clear    skies,

-Tom



--------

Clear Skies,

Tom    Costanza





Read this topic online    here:



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