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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: Help please - can't take off

 

I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs.  I am still having the same symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm.  This is the same symptom she had before I took her apart.  I took my carbs off and I thought the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too rich so I replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though it wasn't bad).   

She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.



I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not running and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at full throttle.



A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with these jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons.  I don't understand why I would suddenly need to change the jets?  While I had the carbs off I could see the jets were not clogged.



I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I couldn't even idle or taxi.



I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up at all.  I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do that either.



What else?? What am I missing here?  I wanna fly!

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Cristal,

  When you reassembled the round slide,was the needle with the clip and o-ring the first thing you put in the slide?

  G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

 	  williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: 	
		  Cristal- Just for form's sake, check to see if your fuel line is collapsed.  Mine was sucked flat from a deteriorated hose.  

  Bill Sullivan

 	




Thanks for the reply Bill.  My fuel line is in good shape.



 	  A good friend wrote: 	
		  What happens after you get the maximum power of 35 to 4000 rpm? Does the engine run rough after you continue to increase throttle? or does the engine max out smoothly at that power?

I know you said throttle cable operation is fine, when its not running & you are looking in carbs, but is it possible the Throttle cable end, (Either end, in the plane or at splitter) slips, while the engine is running (Vibrating)? 

 	




When max power is reached it runs "sluggish".  I don't know how else to describe it.  Maybe I can get a video with sound of it.



I don't know how I'd check to see if the throttle cable is slipping while it's running.  Could I tie it down and run it up with the air filters off and watch it from the side (carefully away from the prop) while the throttle is advanced?  (Or would that make a mess or not run at all?)



What about the fan belt?  This website:

http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax503/fanbeltadjustment.htm

says that a loose fan belt could cause loss of horsepower.

I've never been real good/accurate at checking the "proper 1/4 in deflection at 5 lbs pressure".  They say to check it with your finger but how do I know when I'm pushing at 5lbs of pressure?  When I push it it seems to deflect at least half an inch.  

If that were the problem wouldn't it not run well at lower power settings too?

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Check tank venting. If you have an electric start pull the fuel line and make sure your fuel pump is actually putting out a  good stream of fuel. Is your pulse line soft? Poor pulse will make your fuel pressure soft too. Have you pulled the tank tap(s) to make sure you haven't pulled a piece of junk into the fuel line from the tank end?

 If you have room to pull off the runway after an aborted take off, let the engine get to stumble rpm, shut it off and drop the float bowl(s) to see if it's full of fuel or empty.

DO NOT start messing around changing jets. If you know for sure they're clear that's all they can be, clogged or clear.

 



Rick Girard



On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 12:59 PM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)>

  

 [Crying or Very sad]

 I put new choke seals on my Bing carbs.  I am still having the same symptom...advance the throttle and I can't get over 3500-4000rpm.  This is the same symptom she had before I took her apart.  I took my carbs off and I thought the deteriorated choke seal was the culprit causing it to run too rich so I replaced it (and the other one at the same time even though it wasn't bad).

  She is running real good at idle and slow taxi.

 

 I took the air filter off and looked through the opening while it is not running and can see that the cable is raising and opening up all the way at full throttle.

 

 A technician made the suggestion to change my jets but I've flown with these jets for over a year and a half now, through all seasons.  I don't understand why I would suddenly need to change the jets?  While I had the carbs off I could see the jets were not clogged.

  

 I have a mechanical fuel pump so if it was that failing I would think I couldn't even idle or taxi.

 

 I put a new fuel filter in, just in case, but the old one wasn't clogged up at all.  I put new spark plugs in even though I probably didn't have to do that either.

 

 What else?? What am I missing here?  I wanna fly!

 

 --------

 Cristal Waters

 Kolb Mark II Twinstar

 Rotax 503 DCSI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263836#263836

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Sluggish means it`s probably not the cables, probably one carb, or a fuel 

supply problem.

Jim

---

The BaronVonEvil

Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Walla Walla, WA.

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Hi Cristal,



Sorry to hear about your "Tales of Woe"  For what ever it's worth I'd would 

check the engine compression to see if the engine is in good mechanical 

conditon.  Your compression should be around 160psi or so. It should also be 

close to the same pressure for both cylinders.



What color are the spark plugs?  If they are dark and or covered with soot 

than you are getting too much fuel thru the engine. If the plugs are pale 

tan to white then the engine is running too lean.



It could also be that one of the ignition coils is breaking down under load 

or perhaps the spark is not reaching the plug. You might check for loose or 

chafed ignition wires.  A wet looking spark plug would indicate a lack of 

ignition.



Hope this helps.



Carlos G

AKA

BaronVonEvil



---

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

I pulled out the Rotax repair manual and in the troubleshooting section it has three conditions under the "no" answer for "Is the engine running well at high speed?"

1. Engine "four-stroking"

2. Backfiring through carb

3. Prevailing pinking of engine



and it lists lots of possible faults under each one of those.

However...I don't know which section applies to my engine, except I don't hear any backfiring.



This is something that started at the beginning of summer (June when I flew my dad to Douglas and some thought it was carb ice upon landing), but it just happened once or twice since then and things would go back to normal after pulling the throttle back to idle and then advancing it again.  But it has just recently gotten so bad it doesn't clear up on its own.



That choke seal was probably bad since I had it because that spark plug would always come out black and wet.  Maybe something is messed up from running too rich for so long.  The repair manual mentions exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits.  (That is the exhaust that has been leaking, but it didn't look blocked when I had it off a month or two ago.)  It also mentions heavy carbon deposits in combustion chamber causing pre-ignition.  (When I look in through the spark plug hole the middle of the top of the piston head looks clean but the sides of the top of the piston head look black from what I could see.)



Anyone know what "four-stroking" vs "pinking" is?

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Cristal, Two stroke engines fire the plug each time the piston comes to the top of its stroke. When it is four stroking it is missing. It usually happens when the mixture is so rich that the plug can't spark. Pinking is the same as pinging, ie cylinder has a hot spot that is causing combustion to begin before the plug fires. Usually caused by a lean mixture while loading the engine excessively. 



Rick Girard



On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM, cristalclear13 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "cristalclear13" <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com (cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com)>

  

 I pulled out the Rotax repair manual and in the troubleshooting section it has three conditions under the "no" answer for "Is the engine running well at high speed?"

 1. Engine "four-stroking"

 2. Backfiring through carb

 3. Prevailing pinking of engine

 

 and it lists lots of possible faults under each one of those.

 However...I don't know which section applies to my engine, except I don't hear any backfiring.

 

 This is something that started at the beginning of summer (June when I flew my dad to Douglas and some thought it was carb ice upon landing), but it just happened once or twice since then and things would go back to normal after pulling the throttle back to idle and then advancing it again.  But it has just recently gotten so bad it doesn't clear up on its own.

  

 That choke seal was probably bad since I had it because that spark plug would always come out black and wet.  Maybe something is messed up from running too rich for so long.  The repair manual mentions exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits.  (That is the exhaust that has been leaking, but it didn't look blocked when I had it off a month or two ago.)  It also mentions heavy carbon deposits in combustion chamber causing pre-ignition.  (When I look in through the spark plug hole the middle of the top of the piston head looks clean but the sides of the top of the piston head look black from what I could see.)

  

 Anyone know what "four-stroking" vs "pinking" is?

 

 --------

 Cristal Waters

 Kolb Mark II Twinstar

 Rotax 503 DCSI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263873#263873

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Back in My old R/C flying days, we called 4 stroking an excessively rich 

mixture. One thing I recall reading in the Mike Stratman columns was that if 

you experienced a rough running engine, pulling the choke lever during this 

time could help in determining the problem, in that if it got worse, it was 

already recieving to much fuel before the enricher ciciut was open, & if it 

ran better, it was starving for fuel. This might help in the diagnosis, but 

wouldn`t solve it of course. I don`t remember if you said if you talked to 

Ronnie yet, But That seems to be what`s next.



??

Jim



---

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Cristal,

  Make certain that the gaskets on the intake and on the exhaust are properly in place.Check to see if one of the spark plugs is wetter,darker than the other.  You have points ignition I believe,so you may have to check there also .

  G.Aman

   

 

 --

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

At 10:59 AM 9/19/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  




	


Cristal,



Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under 

the rings.  When was the last time the engine was 

decarbed?



You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running 

rich.  What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring.  This 

prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot.  As the engine runs at 

higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up.  The aluminum 

piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder.  With the carbon under 

the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is 

forced out against the cylinder.  If the carbon is severe enough this force 

will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running 

faster.



It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon 

under the rings.  If you do not find any all well and good.  If you do you 

may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.



FWIW



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

 	  aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Cristal, Two stroke engines fire the plug each time the piston comes to the top of its stroke. When it is four stroking it is missing. It usually happens when the mixture is so rich that the plug can't spark. Pinking is the same as pinging, ie cylinder has a hot spot that is causing combustion to begin before the plug fires. Usually caused by a lean mixture while loading the engine excessively. 



Rick Girard



	




Ok, I'm not pinging and not backfiring so looking at the possible faults for "four-stroking":

a.) Clogged airfilter element (I don't know how much you can tell by looking, but it doesn't look clogged.  Maybe I'll go ahead and clean it.)

b.) Worn needle jet (I can take it apart and see how that looks)

c.) Carb jets too large (I have the standard sizes, but Ronnie did suggest dropping from 158 to 155 and 45 to 40 back when I first called him.  I didn't call him today because I heard he was on vacation.  I only have Saturdays to work on my plane, makes it hard to find help.)

d.) Mixture too rich (I thought fixing the choke seal would fix this.)

e.) Wrong ignition timing (I'd have to take it somewhere to check this, but I could look at the wiring as Carlos suggested)

f.) Exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits (I could take the muffler off.  I've been meaning to put on the muffler I got from Jimmy anyways.)

g.) Needle position too high (The o-ring is on the top slot of the needle and the clip is in the second slot.)

h.) Choke activated (It is not activated.  When I activate it it runs rough.)

i.) Float stuck or faulty (I will have to investigate this further.)



Thanks for your tips and suggestions.  Now I just need some cooler weather to work in the hanger comfortably and some extra Saturdays in the week.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  

Cristal,



Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under 

the rings.  When was the last time the engine was 

decarbed?



You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running 

rich.  What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring.  This 

prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot.  As the engine runs at 

higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up.  The aluminum 

piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder.  With the carbon under 

the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is 

forced out against the cylinder.  If the carbon is severe enough this force 

will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running 

faster.



It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon 

under the rings.  If you do not find any all well and good.  If you do you 

may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.



FWIW



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




That makes sense Jack.  I don't have the tools to do this so I may just take her down to Gerry at Green Sky.  He is closer to me than Ronnie.  I trust them both.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

Cristal, make sure the jet needle and clip are under the white cup in the carb slide. It's easy to get it on top which would make it run very rich and give you the problem that you are seeing.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

[/quote]



Ok, I'm not pinging and not backfiring so looking at the possible faults for "four-stroking":

a.) Clogged airfilter element (I don't know how much you can tell by looking, but it doesn't look clogged.  Maybe I'll go ahead and clean it.)

b.) Worn needle jet (I can take it apart and see how that looks)

c.) Carb jets too large (I have the standard sizes, but Ronnie did suggest dropping from 158 to 155 and 45 to 40 back when I first called him.  I didn't call him today because I heard he was on vacation.  I only have Saturdays to work on my plane, makes it hard to find help.)

d.) Mixture too rich (I thought fixing the choke seal would fix this.)

e.) Wrong ignition timing (I'd have to take it somewhere to check this, but I could look at the wiring as Carlos suggested)

f.) Exhaust port or exhaust pipe blocked by deposits (I could take the muffler off.  I've been meaning to put on the muffler I got from Jimmy anyways.)

g.) Needle position too high (The o-ring is on the top slot of the needle and the clip is in the second slot.)

h.) Choke activated (It is not activated.  When I activate it it runs rough.)

i.) Float stuck or faulty (I will have to investigate this further.)



Thanks for your tips and suggestions.  Now I just need some cooler weather to work in the hanger comfortably and some extra Saturdays in the week.    [/quote]



Cristal, one of the guys mentioned that you have points - Ka-Ching! Check your points, as they wear down, the timing retards, the engine runs smooth, but won't rev up. The problems you describe are exactly what happened to me a number of years ago when I still had my 532 on the MKIII. I bought a set of points from a company that (hopefully) is no longer in business, Airstar Discount Sales. Installed the points the week before leaving for Oshkosh, flew for several hours, and checked them. OK. By the time we got to Illinois, the engine was running exactly like yours. It never occurred to me that the points could have been wearing down that fast, so I repitched the prop to allow the engine to rev up and we kept going. 



Spent most of my time at Oshkosh fooling around with the engine, but didn't check the points. (duh) By the time we got back to Illinois heading south, I was really getting tired of repitching the prop, and the two Maxair Drifters were no longer the slowest airplanes of our threesome...



Finally one of the other guys suggested that I check the points, and they had worn excessively and quickly. Reset them and added a hair because I knew they would keep wearing, repitched the prop again, (sigh) back to normal and continued home without incident.



Perhaps it is as simple as that. Good luck.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

Have you tried running it with the airfilter off. If the airfilter gets 

gloged with oil it will limit RPM. have had this happen a few times.

Regards

           Tony

Downunder

MK111c

---

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Help please - can't take off

When you took off the exhaust & intake manifolds did you by chance 

peek at the rings - you can take a solid object like a wooden dowel 

rod and push on the rings lightly (moderate pressure there guy) and 

see if they compress into the groove slightly.  If you can it shows 

the rings groves are not to carboned up.

Hate to go here but the first thing you need to determine if your 

running rich or lean - getting enough fuel or to much.  Tie the tail 

down, warm the engine up and then do a short full throttle run and 

pull the plugs and observe if there wet or dry and color.  If you 

have a hand primer a second thing you can do while running is give it 

a small shot of prime and note what the affect is - does it bog the 

engine down indicating its rich or does the engine RPM pickup 

indicating it lean.  Run it a bit afterwards to clear the plugs.

What are your EGT temps (note cylinder temps too) when you run up the engine.

Do your an enricher (choke) on your carb(s), if so do you have a boot 

over the cables where they enter the carb, if you don't use an 

enricher, do you have a cap over the port that sticks up out of the carb?

Do you have a squeeze primer bulb in the supply line?  The ball 

sticks in them things some times causing a fuel starvation issue.  If 

you have one do you have a by-pass around it in case that happens.

How old is your fuel pump?

Are you running old gas?  How old?  Is it mixed right?

What are you using in the way of tubing for the pulse line going 

between the engine pulse port and the fuel pump?

(Is it regular fuel line tubing or the heavy wall tubing - if your 

using regular fuel line it can soften the pulse and weaken the flow 

to the fuel pump.)

Does you fuel pump have an oil drain hole - what is the position of 

the hole - is it on the lower side where it can drain?  You can get a 

little oil blown out of the pulse port - it can collect in the fuel 

pump and can't drain if the pump is in the wrong position.

Did you make any changes that you can recall just before this problem 

started - what had you worked on or made any changes to taken off or 

adjusted the prop.

jerb

At 06:51 PM 9/19/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 10:59 AM 9/19/09 -0700, you wrote:

 >

 <cristalclearwaters(at)gmail.com>

 >

Cristal,

Since this has been a slow onset, it may be caused by carbon build up under

the rings.  When was the last time the engine was

decarbed?

You have mentioned that one choker seal was bad and one cylinder was running

rich.  What happens is the carbon or coke can build up under the ring.  This

prevents the ring from expanding back into the slot.  As the engine runs at

higher speed, the ring, piston and cylinder all heat up.  The aluminum

piston expands faster than the cast iron cylinder.  With the carbon under

the ring the steel ring cannot move deeper into the slot and the ring is

forced out against the cylinder.  If the carbon is severe enough this force

will become high enough (drag) to prevent the engine from running

faster.

It might be best to pull the heads and cylinders, and to check for carbon

under the rings.  If you do not find any all well and good.  If you do you

may prevent scoring the piston and cylinder.

FWIW

Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

Hi Crystal,

                 I had a problem like that before...



 I don't think it has been mentioned here....



 Check the "Main Jet".... 



 I had one come loose, and the needle couldn't close enough....



 Had a heck of a time tracing it down.... But when I saw it was



loose... I knew I found the problem...

.

.

                        Gotta Fly...

.

.

PS  it was running too rich...

.

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Help please - can't take off

These are all great suggestions.  I've made a big list of things to check.  I'm going to try to work the easiest ones first.

Since I haven't cleaned the air filters in 50 hrs and over a year and half I'll start with that.  I also noticed that the vent tube I purchased from the hardware store down the street has gotten a little mushy on the bottom where the holes are.  I will order a new one from Aircraft Spruce along with the air filter cleaner/oil kit.



I will keep you all informed of what I find.  I plan to do one thing at a time to narrow down what the issue really is.



If it isn't the air filter, I'll go to the next thing on my list.  Sure wish I had a few days off from work. It's getting dark so early now too.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: Help please - can't take off

I will order a new one from Aircraft Spruce along with the air filter 

cleaner/oil kit.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > Cristal Waters
	


Cristal/Gang:



Local motorcycle shop will have K&N filter oil.  Make sure you get it for 

cotton and not foam filters.



As far as cleaning, I have used gasoline, a coffee can, and a little 

agitation to clean K&N filters.  Sling them around a little to get excess 

gasoline out of them, then set them in the sun to air dry, and finally oil. 

Some say gasoline will ruin the cotton filter element, I don't think so. 

Two strokes keep them wet with gasoline and oil when they are running.



john h

mkIII

Rock House, Oregon

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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