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Fuel Flow Transducer Move
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

For those that moved the fuel flow transducer between the servo and  

the spider, how and where exactly did you mount it?  Pictures would be  

even better!



Thanks

-Mike Kraus

RV-4 Flying

RV-10 FWF and Wiring



Sent from my iPhone

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

 	  n223rv(at)wolflakeairport wrote: 	
		  For those that moved the fuel flow transducer between the servo and  

the spider, how and where exactly did you mount it?  Pictures would be  

even better!

	


Here is a link to a picture where I put mine.  It is where AFS recommends putting it.

http://www.wingscc.com/N2GB/FF4-FuelSystem/100_3208.html

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

Nick Leonard

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?



How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?

_________________
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Flying

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Mine is mounted on the firewall, and my readings fluctuate slightly  

under stable conditions.



Not sure if I'm going to move it one day.



grumpy

N184JM



do not archive



On Sep 24, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Nick Leonard wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to  

 get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally  

 suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in  

 that location?



 How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings  

 or other problems?



 --------

 Nick Leonard

 RV-10 (40015) Finish





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 64706#264706

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

I have about 430 hours with the transducer in the plans location.  No real

issues although I do notice a slight FF drop when I turn the boost pump off.

So far it has been very accurate and consistent.



Marcus

40286



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

I left mine in the standard position.  I see very minor fluctuations....I do

not think it is a problem.



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

--

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard location (tunnel) if you can accept some variability in flow indications when the electric fuel pump is on.  With that being said, mine sits BEFORE the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below.  It is not flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE the servo and very stable.

   

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html

  

 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 



 

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard <nick(at)nleonard.com (nick(at)nleonard.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com (nick(at)nleonard.com)>

 

As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?

 

How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?



--------

Nick Leonard

RV-10 (40015) Finish





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706

 t Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





[b]

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

No problem with the Vans location. Engine is certified IO540D4A5. 



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

The only problem I have seen with the transducer in the tunnel is that  

it reads a little high when the boost pump is on.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Sep 24, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to  

 get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally  

 suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in  

 that location?



 How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings  

 or other problems?



 --------

 Nick Leonard

 RV-10 (40015) Finish





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 64706#264706

dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Van's location with no issues on an IO-540-C4B5. I get some minor  

fluctuations (.2 gph) at times. I only notice this when adjusting to  

LOP operations. Not nearly bothersome enough to consider moving it at  

this point in time. If I had steam gauges instead of a digital  

readout, I doubt that I would even notice it at all.



David Maib

40559

Flying/150 hours





On Sep 24, 2009, at 1:06 PM, David McNeill wrote:






No problem with the Vans location. Engine is certified IO540D4A5.



--

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

 	  wcurtis(at)nerv10.com wrote: 	
		  I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard location (tunnel) if you can?accept some variability in flow indications when the electric fuel pump is on.? With that being said, mine sits BEFORE the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below.? It is not flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE the servo and?very stable.

  ?

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html

 ?

 William 	


William,

If the transducer in your picture is from AFS, contact them.  Mine leaked around the gasket on the cover plate.  There was a recall from the mfg and they replaced mine right away.  That was my only real problem during my fly off.  Took me some time to identify where the leak was coming from.  The transducer in my picture is the old one.  The new one does not have that little filled slot on the cover.

I am sure glad I had moved the transducer from the tunnel to north of the firewall.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:50 am Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Question, Why the teflon tape or pipe sealent? Why aluminum fitting into the transducer?

JP instruments and I suggest never ever use that stuff on the transducer. And it would be a lot better if you had a straight out fitting from the transducer. Not the ninety. Good book to read Is the JPI installation manual. I think it''s the second page where it says, read this first.

But that just my opinion and we all have one.

 Patrick Thyssen



But then I too made a mistake and bought OP Equiptment And now I'm fixing that. 

Dual 430w and garmin G500. Now I know they will work.   

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: William Curtis  <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:56 AM



I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard location (tunnel) if you can accept some variability in flow indications when the electric fuel pump is on.  With that being said, mine sits BEFORE the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below.  It is not flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE the servo and very stable.

   

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html

  

 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 



 

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard <[url=/mc/compose?to=nick(at)nleonard.com]nick(at)nleonard.com[/url]> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Nick Leonard" <[url=/mc/compose?to=nick(at)nleonard.com]nick(at)nleonard.com[/url]>

 

As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?

 

How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?



--------

Nick Leonard

RV-10 (40015) Finish





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706

 t Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comgt; 	


	
 [quote][b]

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Guess you did not read the caption above the photo regarding the aluminum fitting.  NPT fittings benefit from sealant, AN fittings do not.  The inlet to the flow transducer is NPT.  As far as the 90 degree fitting out from the transducer, well that's what I have now on the Cardinal and it works just fine.  The instrument I have in the Cardinal is Electronics International, the OEM for the "red cube" transducer so no, I never read nor plan to read the JPI manual.

   

 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net (jump2(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 [quote]    Question, Why the teflon tape or pipe sealent? Why aluminum fitting into the transducer?

JP instruments and I suggest never ever use that stuff on the transducer. And it would be a lot better if you had a straight out fitting from the transducer. Not the ninety. Good book to read Is the JPI installation manual. I think it''s the second page where it says, read this first.

 But that just my opinion and we all have one.

 Patrick Thyssen



But then I too made a mistake and bought OP Equiptment And now I'm fixing that. 

Dual 430w and garmin G500. Now I know they will work.   

 



--- On Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com (wcurtis(at)nerv10.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com (wcurtis(at)nerv10.com)>

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:56 AM



   I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard location (tunnel) if you can accept some variability in flow indications when the electric fuel pump is on.  With that being said, mine sits BEFORE the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below.  It is not flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE the servo and very stable.

   

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html

  



 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 



 

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard <nick(at)nleonard.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com>

 

As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?

 

How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?



--------

Nick Leonard

RV-10 (40015) Finish  





Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706

 t Un/Subscription,

www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

Matt Dralle, List Admin.

=====

 



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gt; [url=http://www.matronics.com/======%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%3C/font%3E%3C/b%3E%3Cfont+color=][/url] 	


	
   

  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

rbibb

Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 37

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Well if I get real bored this winter I might read it.  But the Redskins will have to keep playing the way they’ve been playing, the Hokies will have to tank, and The History Channel will have gone off the air….  

     

Richard Bibb  

972-771-2598  

972-835-5979 mobile  

   

        

  

    

“, I never read nor plan to read the JPI manual.”  

    

   

    

William  

    

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/  

    

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net (jump2(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote: “Good book to read is the JPI Manual”  

   

DO NOT ARCHIVE  

  

       [quote][b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

As others have noted with the transducer installed in the tunnel prior 

to the mech fuel pump and after the elect boost pump, you WILL see 

errroneous readings during the period the elect fuel pump is operated. 

 From my experience you will ALSO see significant fluctuations in the 

fuel flows. (+/- .5 gph) during the normal course of operations this 

sin't too much of an issue. However if you are trying to balance your 

fuel injectors or troubleshooting a fuel system issue and want to 

collect accurate datam to a .1 of a gph, you will get VERY frustrated. 

Save yourself some frustration and mount it between the servo and the 

distribution spider.



Deems Davis

www.deemsrv10.com

N519PJ



Nick Leonard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?



 How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?



 --------

 Nick Leonard

 RV-10 (40015) Finish





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 64706#264706

Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.  Only irregluarity comes

when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears

to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.



Ron McGann



Head of Engineering

Security Solutions & Services

Aerospace



Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100



--

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

I'LL STAND BY MY STATEMENT WITH THE ADDED INSERT, EI MAKE INSTALLATION MANUALS ALSO. THEY REFERENCE AC43-13 ALSO. YOUR LOSS FOR NOT READING EVERYTHING YOU CAN. YOU WOULD LEARN A LOT MORE.

 PATRICK THYSSEN

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:10 PM



Guess you did not read the caption above the photo regarding the aluminum fitting.  NPT fittings benefit from sealant, AN fittings do not.  The inlet to the flow transducer is NPT.  As far as the  90 degree fitting out from the transducer, well that's what I have now on  the Cardinal and it works just fine.  The instrument I have in the Cardinal is Electronics International, the OEM for the "red cube" transducer so no, I never read nor plan to read the JPI manual.

   

 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		      Question, Why the teflon tape or pipe sealent? Why aluminum fitting into the transducer?

JP instruments and I suggest never ever use that stuff on the transducer. And it would be a lot better if you had a straight out fitting from the transducer. Not the ninety. Good book to read Is the JPI installation manual. I think it''s the second page where it says, read this first.

 But that just my opinion and we all have one.

 Patrick Thyssen



But then I too made a mistake and bought OP Equiptment And now I'm fixing that. 

Dual 430w and garmin G500. Now I know they will work.   

 



--- On Thu, 9/24/09, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:56 AM



   I think the general consensus is that is works fine in the standard location (tunnel) if you can accept some variability in flow indications when the electric fuel pump is on.  With that being said, mine sits BEFORE the flow divider on top of the air box in the picture below.  It is not flying yet but in my Cardinal it is AFTER the mechanical fuel pump BEFORE the servo and very stable.

   

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/90Electrical/EL2g.html

  



 William

 http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/

 



 

 On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Nick Leonard <nick(at)nleonard.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Nick Leonard" <nick(at)nleonard.com>

 

As an informal survey for the rest of us, it would be interesting to get feedback from those that have left it where Van's originally suggested.  Are any of you having any trouble with the transducer in that location?

 

How many people have moved the unit because of inaccurate readings or other problems?



--------

Nick Leonard

RV-10 (40015) Finish  





Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264706#264706

 t Un/Subscription,

www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

Matt Dralle, List Admin.

=====

 



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comgt; [url=http://www.matronics.com/======%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%3C/font%3E%3C/b%3E%3Cfont+color=][/url] 	


	
   

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 [quote][b]

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Good discussion on fuel flow transducer mounting.  Mine is between the 

engine boost pump and servo, working good (at) 180 hours with very stable 

readings.



IMHO they are better left free floating in the line where ever mounted in 

the engine compartment rather than hard mounted to the engine.  I think hard 

mounting would transmit engine vibration directly into the sensor and might 

shorten it's life.  Hard mounting also adds some additional heat input.  The 

Flowscan instructions suggest floating in the line and wrapping with fire 

sleeve.



Dick Sipp

RV10 N110DV 180 hours

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From the fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the fuel pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your pressure transducer from  being hot [vapor] then you could have a problem as to what it is reporting.

By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.

 Lets hear from the engineers.



Patrick Thyssen

Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel

 Oh how I love OP



--- On Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au> wrote:

[quote]

From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>

Subject: RE: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer  Move

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28  PM



--> RV10-List message posted by: "McGann, Ron" <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>



Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.  Only irregluarity comes

when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears

to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.



Ron McGann



Head of Engineering

Security Solutions & Services

Aerospace



Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

Pressure is pressure, it's just the compressibility that is

different.  If the vapor were at 50psi, it would push

down on the fuel at 50psi, and up on the fuel pressure

sender at 50psi, and the fuel would transfer that pressure

to the engine at 50psi.  Doesn't matter if it's vapor, or

what is in the line...it's just a diaphragm that is

displaying pressure.  Think of a manometer..it's using

air and liquid to show air pressure, but inside the

manometer is both air and liquid.  It's all the same when

it's pushing out against something else.  If you have a

pot of steaming water and you plug it, the steam will

build up pressure, and if you puncture the bottom of

the pot, the water will come out at whatever pressure

the steam is at.



So no, it shouldn't have an effect on the pressure reading.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



Patrick Thyssen wrote:

[quote] One thing I have just thought about and correct me if I'm wrong. From 

 the fuel pump to the fuel pressure sending unit is up hill or above the 

 fuel pump. This being said if you get air in your hoses going to your 

 pressure transducer from  being hot [vapor] then you could have a 

 problem as to what it is reporting.

 By having a compression of air instead of solid liquid.

  Lets hear from the engineers.

 

 Patrick Thyssen

 Engine pickled again!!! for new instrument panel

  Oh how I love OP

 

 --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, McGann, Ron /<Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>/* wrote:

 

 

     From: McGann, Ron <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>

     Subject: RE: Re: Fuel Flow Transducer Move

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 5:28 PM

 

     

     <Ron.McGann(at)thalesgroup.com.au>

 

     Only 40 hours but same experience as Marcus.  Only irregluarity comes

     when the boost pump is engaged but the totaliser function always appears

     to reflect remaining fuel to within a gallon or so.

 

     Ron McGann

 

     Head of Engineering

     Security Solutions & Services

     Aerospace

 

     Tel: +61 2 9562 3530 | Mob: +61 (0) 466 655 393 | Fax: +61 2 9562 2100

 

     --

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