Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

This is Howard for those of you who will remember me...I used to fly the purple monster in Northern Minnesota. I am helping a friend get his -4 in the air...we did a first flight last week....this plane had a landing incident and was converted to nosewheel.....a few flights on it now and everything is going nice...

I'm having an ignition issue, I'm getting spark out of both A & B but, the module that the duel ign. goes to, is only letting half of the spark through to the plugs. Module A is blocking half and module B is blocking half. We have to have both ignitions on or it will only run on 2 cylinders. These modules seem to be solid epoxy and no way to open....Anything come up like this before? And while on the subject? Where did Lance Wheeler go off to? Anybody hear from him? I hope he's doing well...That NSI is a nice package..I have a lot of time behind them....It's fun to be in a kitfox again after so many years..

Howard

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Hi Howard-



I surely remember you as the first one on this list to help me out  

with the reamers I needed to get started...thanks again, and holler  

if I can help.  Unfortunately,I know "zip" about Rotax ignition. : (



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 762.9 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~237 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Sep 11, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Hfirm wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 This is Howard for those of you who will remember me...I used to  

 fly the purple monster in Northern Minnesota. I am helping a friend  

 get his -4 in the air...we did a first flight last week....this  

 plane had a landing incident and was converted to nosewheel.....a  

 few flights on it now and everything is going nice...

 I'm having an ignition issue, I'm getting spark out of both A & B  

 but, the module that the duel ign. goes to, is only letting half of  

 the spark through to the plugs. Module A is blocking half and  

 module B is blocking half. We have to have both ignitions on or it  

 will only run on 2 cylinders. These modules seem to be solid epoxy  

 and no way to open....Anything come up like this before? And while  

 on the subject? Where did Lance Wheeler go off to? Anybody hear  

 from him? I hope he's doing well...That NSI is a nice package..I  

 have a lot of time behind them....It's fun to be in a kitfox again  

 after so many years..

 Howard





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 62589#262589

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Hi Howard,

 Good to hear from you. What are you flying now? Is it purple? Miss seeing 

you on the list.   Larry Huntley, Dundee,NY



---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Welcome back, Howard.  Good to hear from you.

First, Lance is gone.  Sort of a "forced retirement" and the company has 

reverted to its parent company, now called Maxwell Propulsion Service (MPS).

Assuming you have the stock NSI package with no modifications, it sounds 

like you have the isolation modules miswired.  Do you have the schematic for 

it?  If you don't, let me know and I'll see if I can find mine and get a 

copy off to you.

Regards,

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 433+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)





---

cde2fly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Howard - I'm not sure it you're referring to a Rotax or an NSI on the ignition issues.  If it's a 912/912S, I had a similar problem after I removed one of the ignition pickups from the back side of the engine.  When I reinstalled it, I had a washer in the wrong spot and it was enough to cause one side of the ignition not to fire.  If the engine in question is a Rotax and you need more info on this, let me know....I learned way more about the 912 ignition system than I intended!

 

 

 --

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

It is a stock NSI ignition...A schematic would be great!

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Howard,

I at one time had that same engine and had a failure with one of the

modules.  I successfully rebuilt the module and replaced the solid epoxy.  I

took some pictures of the operation to give to the individual who bought the

engine.  I am replacing that engine with a Jabiru 3300.  I came across the

pictures a few weeks ago while purging my files.  If you like I will try to

find them again and attach them to an email to you.  I am on the road

currently traveling through North Carolina with my wife and another couple

but have had internet connections at night.  Rebuilding was much easier than

I expected.



Jim Crowder



[quote] --

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

I'll take you up on that....It would be nice to save the $ and rebuild them....It still may be a wiring issue....The builder does not remember checking the mags individually....Deke, if you have that schematic handy, I'd love to take a look at it.



On a side note, The -4 with the nosewheel is an easy plane on the ground. I miss the tailwheel, but for anyone that is having trouble with the tailwheel, This is the way to go...a monkey could land the kitfox with a nosewheel...

Howard

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Give me a few days, Howard.  I'm away from home and as soon as I return I'll 

take care of it.

I'm pretty sure the plug wires are a little out of whack.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 433+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)

---

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

OK Deke, thanks a lot.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Howard, I scanned the schematic for you and attached.  Let me know if you 

can read it OK.  If not, I can snail mail you a copy of it.

Deke



---

NSI_Wire.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

40.17 KB

Viewed:

15618 Time(s)

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

 	  Fox5flyer wrote: 	
		  Howard, I scanned the schematic for you and attached.  Let me know if you 

can read it OK.  If not, I can snail mail you a copy of it.

Deke



--- 	




I'd really appreciate it if you could mail me a copy...I can't read the text on the scanned image.



Mailing address is 

21605 Ahlstrom St.

Rogers MN 55374

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Hey Deke, I have some relatives in your neck of the woods...In Rose City...Next time I'm there, I'll try to hook up for a visit. Also, in Southeast MN my friend with the -4 has a 900' grass strip at his house...If you ever want to make the trip...

Howard

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:17 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

It'll go out in today's mail, Howard.

Deke



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

That's only about an hour drive from here.  Give me a call next time you're 

this way.

Deke

do not archive



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Jim, I tore one of those isolation modules apart, mainly to see how they 

work.  A friend and I determined that the failure wasn't from the diodes 

themselves, but the failure of the epoxy resin that is used as an electrical 

insulator to keep the high voltage from jumping across the diodes causing 

the engine to misfire.  We also determined that the reason for the epoxy 

failure was the heat and vibration from the engine.  Possibly placing the 

modules on the firewall away from the engine heat might prolong their life, 

but I think the module design would still cause failures eventually.

The fact that you were able to rebuild one of the modules successfully 

speaks for your craftsmanship skills.  Those little things are really packed 

in there.  Did you use the same diodes?  What sort of epoxy did you use for 

the potting compound?  If you find the photos please post them.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 433+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



---

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Deke,

I used a Dremel tool along with various other small tools to carefully

remove the potting compound and diodes.  To test the diodes I took them to a

retired HP electrical engineer I had once built a house for and who became a

friend.  He has a pretty complete lab at his house.  As I remember due to

the size of the diodes it was difficult to fully test them.  I obtained some

replacement diodes from a former NSI employee who I learned had purchased

NSI's inventory.  I can't think of his name at this moment, but he builds

another well known EA81 aircraft conversion.  I only replaced the diodes we

thought to be failed.  You are correct in that they do fit tightly and I was

concerned that they might short out.  I purchased the potting compound from

an electrical supply company.  I think I still have the bottle at home and

will look for it along with my photos when I return from my current road

trip.  I gave the unused diodes to the engine purchaser who took it all back

to Australia where he lives.  



My work was successful and I ground ran the engine several times with no

problem after the repair--something I could not do before the repair.



Jim Crowder



[quote] --

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Deke and Jim,



The person that bought all of NSI's EA81 inventory was Mykal Templeman who

now runs Stratus ([mjt(at)camano.net]).  I got my diodes from Mouser, they are

NTE517 5kV made for microwave ovens.  They are a bit pricey for diodes.



Mike Logan

Dogwood Airpark

Fredericksburg, VA



--

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Hi, Mike, Jim, Howard, and interested others.  After having two of these

modules go bad from leaking diodes (the diodes don't go bad, just the

potting compound gets cooked which causes the diodes to leak to each other)

I decided that it was just a bad design

and no amount of trying to redo it would make them reliable for the long

run.  Sure, some of them go 300 plus hours, some less, and some more, but

they all seem to go eventually and it's not like one can buy one off the

shelf.

I got to poking around on the net and I found some 80kv diodes with threaded

female terminals at each end.  I was able to use the terminals from my

existing defective modules to fabricate a block of diodes that is roughly

the same size and weight as the NSI units.  A little lathe work to turn down

and rethread the male terminals to the correct size to match the diodes and

everything went together nicely.  Rather than having 48 of those little

microwave diodes crammed into the small space that the modules allow I now

have only 8 of them and no housing is needed.

Now, for the rest of the story.  drum roll please...

I haven't tried them yet as I've been too busy flying to take the airplane

down as it will require new spark plug wires and some configuring before I'm

satisfied.  That can wait until this winter when I'm snowed in and I take

the airplane down for annual.  One thing I need to figure out is the

polarity on those GM coils on the ignition modules.  The two high tension

coil terminals have opposite polarities.  Anybody know which side is which

or a way of testing to find out?

I've attached photos for those who are interested.  Scroll down.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 433+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



 	  Quote: 	
		   Deke and Jim,



 The person that bought all of NSI's EA81 inventory was Mykal Templeman who

 now runs Stratus ([mjt(at)camano.net]).  I got my diodes from Mouser, they

 are

 NTE517 5kV made for microwave ovens.  They are a bit pricey for diodes.



 Mike Logan

 Dogwood Airpark

 Fredericksburg, VA

 Deke,

 I used a Dremel tool along with various other small tools to carefully

 remove the potting compound and diodes.  To test the diodes I took them to

 a

 retired HP electrical engineer I had once built a house for and who became

 a

 friend.  He has a pretty complete lab at his house.  As I remember due to

 the size of the diodes it was difficult to fully test them.  I obtained

 some

 replacement diodes from a former NSI employee who I learned had purchased

 NSI's inventory.  I can't think of his name at this moment, but he builds

 another well known EA81 aircraft conversion.  I only replaced the diodes

 we

 thought to be failed.  You are correct in that they do fit tightly and I

 was

 concerned that they might short out.  I purchased the potting compound

 from

 an electrical supply company.  I think I still have the bottle at home and

 will look for it along with my photos when I return from my current road

 trip.  I gave the unused diodes to the engine purchaser who took it all

 back

 to Australia where he lives.



 My work was successful and I ground ran the engine several times with no

 problem after the repair--something I could not do before the repair.



 Jim Crowder


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>

>

> Jim, I tore one of those isolation modules apart, mainly to see how

> they

> work.  A friend and I determined that the failure wasn't from the

> diodes

> themselves, but the failure of the epoxy resin that is used as an

> electrical

> insulator to keep the high voltage from jumping across the diodes

> causing

> the engine to misfire.  We also determined that the reason for the

> epoxy

> failure was the heat and vibration from the engine.  Possibly placing

> the

> modules on the firewall away from the engine heat might prolong their

> life,

> but I think the module design would still cause failures eventually.

> The fact that you were able to rebuild one of the modules successfully

> speaks for your craftsmanship skills.  Those little things are really

> packed

> in there.  Did you use the same diodes?  What sort of epoxy did you use

> for

> the potting compound?  If you find the photos please post them.

> Deke Morisse


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > > <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net>

> >

> > Howard,

> > I at one time had that same engine and had a failure with one of the

> > modules.  I successfully rebuilt the module and replaced the solid

> epoxy.

> > I

> > took some pictures of the operation to give to the individual who

> bought

> > the

> > engine.  I am replacing that engine with a Jabiru 3300.  I came

> across the

> > pictures a few weeks ago while purging my files.  If you like I will

> try

> > to

> > find them again and attach them to an email to you.  I am on the road

> > currently traveling through North Carolina with my wife and another

> couple

> > but have had internet connections at night.  Rebuilding was much

> easier

> > than

> > I expected.

> >

> > Jim Crowder

> >

> >> 

> >>

> >> This is Howard for those of you who will remember me...I used to fly

> >> the purple monster in Northern Minnesota. I am helping a friend get

> his

> >> -4 in the air...we did a first flight last week....this plane had a

> >> landing incident and was converted to nosewheel.....a few flights on

> it

> >> now and everything is going nice...

> >> I'm having an ignition issue, I'm getting spark out of both A & B

> but,

> >> the module that the duel ign. goes to, is only letting half of the

> >> spark through to the plugs. Module A is blocking half and module B

> is

> >> blocking half. We have to have both ignitions on or it will only run

> on

> >> 2 cylinders. These modules seem to be solid epoxy and no way to

> >> open....Anything come up like this before? And while on the subject?

> >> Where did Lance Wheeler go off to? Anybody hear from him? I hope

> he's

> >> doing well...That NSI is a nice package..I have a lot of time behind

> >> them....It's fun to be in a kitfox again after so many years..

> >> Howard

DSCN0699_(Medium).JPG

Description:

Filesize:

74.04 KB

Viewed:

15491 Time(s)

DSCN0700_(Medium).JPG

Description:

Filesize:

52.89 KB

Viewed:

15491 Time(s)

DSCN0701_(Medium).JPG

Description:

Filesize:

63.53 KB

Viewed:

15491 Time(s)

Hfirm

Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Hi everyone, I'm back with a -4 with NSI questions..

Nice Deke, It will be interesting too know how those work out.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum