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rvg8tor

Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 50
Location: Olympia, WA

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: Welding cable

My van's kit came with MS 2 awg cable for big wires, but the stuff is too stiff for my application, I have very short runs from my battery to the contactor.  I know welding cable can be used, a friend found some "200 amp inverter cable" at Harbor Freight that he is using in his airplane, it is 4 awg cable.  Does anyone know if this is the same stuff as welding cable.  The connections I want to use this flexible cable for are all behind the firewall, I will use the mil spec stuff to run power forward to the starter.  Thanks for any help with this.

_________________
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Engine)
www.mykitlog.com/rvg8tor

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Welding cable

I don't know about the Harbor Freight stuff, but when I was looking for welding cable, I did find a variety of quality in insulation.  Some had an inner jacket, which I took to be a better quality, and some had not.

 

Sam

www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

 	  Quote: 	
		  	




On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:19 AM, rvg8tor <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net (rvg8tor(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rvg8tor" <rvg8tor(at)comcast.net (rvg8tor(at)comcast.net)>

  

 My van's kit came with MS 2 awg cable for big wires, but the stuff is too stiff for my application, I have very short runs from my battery to the contactor.  I know welding cable can be used, a friend found some "200 amp inverter cable" at Harbor Freight that he is using in his airplane.  Does anyone know if this is the same stuff as welding cable.  The connections I want to use this flexible cable for are all behind the firewall, I will use the mil spec stuff to run power forward to the starter.  Thanks for any help with this.

  

 --------

 Mike &quot;Nemo&quot; Elliott

 RV-8A QB (Fuselage)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264699#264699

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 10:19 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My van's kit came with MS 2 awg cable for big wires, but the stuff 

is too stiff for my application, I have very short runs from my 

battery to the contactor.  I know welding cable can be used, a 

friend found some "200 amp inverter cable" at Harbor Freight that he 

is using in his airplane.  Does anyone know if this is the same 

stuff as welding cable.  The connections I want to use this flexible 

cable for are all behind the firewall, I will use the mil spec stuff 

to run power forward to the starter.  Thanks for any help with this.


	


   No good way to know details of this product.

   Welding cable is really inexpensive. Pick up

   what you need at a local welding supply store.

   Also, 2AWG is REALLY oversized for an RV with battery

   on the firewall. If it were my airplane, 4AWG

   welding cable would be used for all fat wires

   that carry starter current.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Welding cable

At 11:51 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I don't know about the Harbor Freight stuff, but when I was looking for welding cable, I did find a variety of quality in insulation.  Some had an inner jacket, which I took to be a better quality, and some had not.



 Sam 	


   Thanks for reminding me of that Sam. A guy

   at a welding store told me that the two-layer

   cable lasted longer in the field. Little nicks

   in the outer jacket tended to propagate cracks

   through to the strands when the cable was flexed/

   stretched. By making it two layers, the gap

   was a "crack stopper" while the inner layer

   maintained environmental integrity.



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wire/4AWG_Welding_Cable_1.jpg

  

   It seems a logical explanation. Of course,

   the cables in our airplanes don't get stretched

   across gravel drives and run over by dump-trucks.



   The Anchor brand welding cable illustrated above

   has an HDPM outer jacket which is revered for

   its flexibility and toughness.  Here's an excerpt

   from a wire catalog describing this insulation.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

33dfbb5.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

115.3 KB

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12563 Time(s)

rvg8tor

Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 50
Location: Olympia, WA

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Welding cable

I found my local welding shop and bought some 4 AWG.  Man this stuff is flexible, I can't believe I was trying to wrestle with the mill spec stuff for those short runs.  It is not the double insulated stuff you showed in the picture but it seem tough. it is labeled as "Heavy Duty Welding cable 600V -50 degrees C to 105 degrees C.  I will use a crimp on ring terminal, I have the tool from ACS for this but should I solder the end before crimping, there are a lot of fine wires in this cable.  I will have to check the AEC Bible, I seem to remember reading something on this subject.

_________________
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A QB (Engine)
www.mykitlog.com/rvg8tor

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Welding cable

Mike,



Maybe a small thing, but I would crimp "before" I'd solder. Soldering

just seals the deal.



Glenn



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 07:41 PM 9/24/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I found my local welding shop and bought some 4 AWG.  Man this stuff 

is flexible, I can't believe I was trying to wrestle with the mill 

spec stuff for those short runs.


	


   NICE to work with . . .



 	  Quote: 	
		    It is not the double insulated stuff you showed in the picture but 

 it seem tough. it is labeled as "Heavy Duty Welding cable 600V -50 

 degrees C to 105 degrees C.


	


   Yup, it will be just fine . . .



 	  Quote: 	
		    I will use a crimp on ring terminal, I have the tool from ACS for 

 this but should I solder the end before crimping, there are a lot 

 of fine wires in this cable.  I will have to check the AEC Bible, I 

 seem to remember reading something on this subject.


	


   If your crimp tool produces the proper crush, then

   crimping is as good as solder. The two processes

   are essentially interchangeable. If you solder at

   all, then crimping adds no value.



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf





        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Welding cable

Where can you find the anchor brand cable? Any weblinks/supply  you can point to.  

Thanks  

Chris  

RV-10  

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

 Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:54 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Welding cable  

  

  

   

At 11:51 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:

 

   

I don't know about the Harbor Freight stuff, but when I was looking for welding cable, I did find a variety of quality in insulation.  Some had an inner jacket, which I took to be a better quality, and some had not.

 

 Sam  



   Thanks for reminding me of that Sam. A guy

   at a welding store told me that the two-layer

   cable lasted longer in the field. Little nicks

   in the outer jacket tended to propagate cracks

   through to the strands when the cable was flexed/

   stretched. By making it two layers, the gap

   was a "crack stopper" while the inner layer

   maintained environmental integrity.

 

 http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wire/4AWG_Welding_Cable_1.jpg

  

   It seems a logical explanation. Of course,

   the cables in our airplanes don't get stretched

   across gravel drives and run over by dump-trucks.

 

   The Anchor brand welding cable illustrated above

   has an HDPM outer jacket which is revered for

   its flexibility and toughness.  Here's an excerpt

   from a wire catalog describing this insulation.

 

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CA3E96.714FC470[/img]

 

 

 

   

       Bob . . .

 

         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

image001.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

115.3 KB

Viewed:

12518 Time(s)

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 09:45 AM 9/26/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Where can you find the anchor brand cable? Any weblinks/supply  you 

can point to.

Thanks

Chris

RV-10


	


   A local welding supply store will offer Anchor or

   a suitable equivalent.  Some mention was made of

   a "200A inverter cable" from Harbor Freight. While

   these wires will probably have enough finely stranded

   copper for the task, the question to be asked deals

   with temperature characteristics and ruggedness of

   the INSULATION. Welding cable produced to an ATSM

   specification (as are most if not all American

   products) will do the job for you . . .



   I searched for Anchor outlets but without success

   after 20 minutes or so . . . however, the storefront

   where I purchased the pictured sample was offering

   Anchor brand cable at the time I bought it. That

   was several years ago.



    Shop around locally first . . .

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Welding cable

I was at my local True-Value hardware store, this morning, and they had the 4AWG inner jacketed stuff.  I didn't look for the brand name, though.

 	  Quote: 	
		  	
Sam

 On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 



 At 09:45 AM 9/26/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Where can you find the anchor brand cable? Any weblinks/supply  you can point to.

 Thanks

 Chris

 RV-10

 	
 



   A local welding supply store will offer Anchor or

   a suitable equivalent.  Some mention was made of

   a "200A inverter cable" from Harbor Freight. While

   these wires will probably have enough finely stranded

   copper for the task, the question to be asked deals

   with temperature characteristics and ruggedness of

   the INSULATION. Welding cable produced to an ATSM

   specification (as are most if not all American

   products) will do the job for you . . .

 

   I searched for Anchor outlets but without success

   after 20 minutes or so . . . however, the storefront

   where I purchased the pictured sample was offering

   Anchor brand cable at the time I bought it. That

   was several years ago.

 

    Shop around locally first . . .

 

 

        Bob . . .

 

         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

halbenjamin(at)optonline.
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Welding cable

Hi Bob C

  6nbsp;

 West Marine carries ANCOR brand battery cable E I don 7t know if it 7s any good E Just another piece of intel to muck things up E 

  6nbsp;

 Hal Benjamin

 RV4 Long Island C NY



---

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 01:00 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob,

  

 West Marine carries ANCOR brand battery cable. I don't know if it's any good. Just another piece of intel to muck things up. 

  	


    Thanks for the heads-up. I checked a portion of

    their offerings at:



  http://tinyurl.com/ycmabhn 



    It's not clear to me that this is the same "Anchor"

    cable company. The material illustrated has tinned

    conductors while welding cable does not. Further,

    their prices (before shipping I presume) are pretty

    breathtaking. Higher than 22759 stuff from Aircraft

    Spruce!



    It seems that 'Anchor' is an exceedingly popular

    name for various brands/businesses. Makes it

    difficult to find 'the one' . . .



    Here's one good hit



  http://tinyurl.com/ydjdlr2 



    assuming you can use 500' of 4awg. This stuff

    is about $1.50/ft before shipping. This is how

    your welding supply store would buy it and sell

    it for $2.25/ft or so . . .



    It appears that the folks we're looking for

    offer a huge selection of electric and wire-welding

    parts and tools of which welding cable is only

    a small fraction of their catalog. Given this

    penetration into the welding supplies market,

    it's quite likely that local stores will know

    all about them.



    If anyone finds the mother website for Anchor

    brand welding products, I'd appreciate hearing

    about it. 



 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Welding cable

Well I guess you see why I asked, I spent some time googling and didn’t find much whioch actually called out the epdm insulation.  Guess I should have mentioned that.  I did find this  place and I sent an email to ask what brand it is they carry, hopefully they will respond Monday and I’ll report back.  Its finding that EPDM insulation that seems tricky, I had some stuff locally but it had a paper inner liner and I didn’t find the outer stuff to be very tough, it seemed easy to nick and penetrate.  

   

   

http://www.wesbellwireandcable.com/Welding.html  

   

   

-Chris   

RV-10  

   

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

 Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 3:20 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: Welding cable  

  

  

   

At 01:00 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:

 

   

Hi Bob,

  

 West Marine carries ANCOR brand battery cable. I don't know if it's any good. Just another piece of intel to muck things up. 

    



    Thanks for the heads-up. I checked a portion of

    their offerings at:

 

 http://tinyurl.com/ycmabhn 

 

    It's not clear to me that this is the same "Anchor"

    cable company. The material illustrated has tinned

    conductors while welding cable does not. Further,

    their prices (before shipping I presume) are pretty

    breathtaking. Higher than 22759 stuff from Aircraft

    Spruce!

 

    It seems that 'Anchor' is an exceedingly popular

    name for various brands/businesses. Makes it

    difficult to find 'the one' . . .

 

    Here's one good hit

 

 http://tinyurl.com/ydjdlr2 

 

    assuming you can use 500' of 4awg. This stuff

    is about $1.50/ft before shipping. This is how

    your welding supply store would buy it and sell

    it for $2.25/ft or so . . .

 

    It appears that the folks we're looking for

    offer a huge selection of electric and wire-welding

    parts and tools of which welding cable is only

    a small fraction of their catalog. Given this

    penetration into the welding supplies market,

    it's quite likely that local stores will know

    all about them.

 

    If anyone finds the mother website for Anchor

    brand welding products, I'd appreciate hearing

    about it. 

 

 

   

       Bob . . .

 

         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------  [quote] [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 06:22 PM 9/26/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Well I guess you see why I asked, I spent some time googling and didn’t find much whioch actually called out the epdm insulation.  Guess I should have mentioned that.  I did find this  place and I sent an email to ask what brand it is they carry, hopefully they will respond Monday and I’ll report back.  Its finding that EPDM insulation that seems tricky, I had some stuff locally but it had a paper inner liner and I didn’t find the outer stuff to be very tough, it seemed easy to nick and penetrate. 	


    I looked at some wire in the junk box that

    I think came from an installation kit for

    an automotive super-sound system. The insulation

    was decidedly plastic looking (shiny) and

    also had a paper liner. 



  	  Quote: 	
		   

  

  http://www.wesbellwireandcable.com/Welding.html 	


    Hey, good find on the web-source! Looks like

    their prices are really good too. As you can

    see from their offerings, there are MANY different

    kinds of insulation . . . EPDM is not the magic

    material, just one of many that would be

    suitable. I didn't intend that one zero in

    on EDPM in that manner. The fact that a reel

    of wire (or a catalog page) cites EDPM says

    that you KNOW what's being offered. That reel

    of shiny stuff with unknown and/or questionable

    insulation material MIGHT be okay. Without

    identification or other qualification data

    like materials or temperature ratings, it's

    good to move on and consider other sources.



    Looks like the WesBell folks are an excellent

    source of wire suitable for use as fat wires

    in your airplane.



 

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

tomcostanza

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Welding cable

Here's another data point:



http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=0cc7974ccdf864c041a7cdd5357e601a

_________________
Clear Skies,
Tom Costanza
-- in year 17 of a 3 year project

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 08:56 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<Tom(at)CostanzaAndAssociates.com>



Here's another data point:



http://www.cableyard.com/catalog/index.php?cPath 1&osCsid=0cc7974ccdf864c041a7cdd5357e601a


	


   Another score from the 3-point line . . . thanks!

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

rv8iator

Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Newberg, OR

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: Welding cable

McMaster-Carr supplies welding cable in two insulation types at a reasonable price... 



http://www.mcmaster.com/#welding-cable/=3tsvkp



Chris Stone

RV-*

<snip>



 	  Quote: 	
		  >Where can you find the anchor brand cable? Any weblinks/supply  you 

>can point to.

>Thanks

>Chris

>RV-10


	


 	  Quote:

_________________
C. Stone (RV8iator)

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: Welding cable

At 09:36 AM 9/28/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



McMaster-Carr supplies welding cable in two insulation types at a 

reasonable price...



http://www.mcmaster.com/#welding-cable/=3tsvkp


	


   Thanks! I should have thought about those guys.

   I'm thinking about adding a page to the

   website too link to the hot prospects . . .





        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: Welding cable

 	  Quote: 	
		  

   I'm thinking about adding a page to the

   website too link to the hot prospects . . .


	


     Broke down and did it. See:



http://aeroelectric.com/Sources.html



     . . . as readers discover additional web

    sources for other unique materials or tools

    that belong on this list are encouraged to

    let me know about them.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: Welding cable

Ditto on that Bob!! I always go to McMaster and just as quickly forget I

did.

-Chris



--

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