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Firestars & gusts?????

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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: Firestars & gusts?????

Decided to pratice takeoffs and landings today , in gusty conditions.



Firestar 2 (at) 725lbs

Runway heading 13

wind 170 (at) 14k gusting 20k, gust were rather closely spaced.

DA 2400 ft.



My goal was to touch down within 50 yards of my selected touch down  

point and feel

safe and in compleat control. I couldn't do it. I was really pushing  

it to stay within 100 yards.

I only did 6 landings because I felt like I was at or maybe exceading  

my skill limits.



As I am planing 2 rather long X countrys this spring, one to Utah &  

one to Sun&Fun, I'm

sure I'll run into rough weather and I need to pratice for it.



MY questions to anyone who flys a firestar are , what do you think is  

a reasonable limit for

the firestar regarding gusty conditions and crosswind components?



I realize that each pilot has a different skill level, I,m trying to  

raise mine up to what the airplane can do, but I don't want to push  

hard enough to get in trouble. any thoughts will be appreciated

and helpful.



Frank Goodnight

Firestar2 HKS 55161

Brownsville , TX

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: Firestars & gusts?????

 	  Quote: 	
		   I realize that each pilot has a different skill level, I,m trying to 

 raise mine up to what the airplane can do, but I don't want to push  hard 

 enough to get in trouble. any thoughts will be appreciated

 and helpful.



 Frank Goodnight


	




Hi Frank G/Gang:



Capability of any Kolb and its pilot, to me, is what that pilot feels 

comfortable with.



That is how I approach the capabilities of my mkIII and the other Kolb 

models I get to fly occasionally.



Many times, when I get caught in bad weather conditions, my mkIII 

demonstrates it is a better airplane than I am a pilot.



I learned to fly Kolbs by flying frequently, almost every day, pushing the 

envelope more each time I flew.  Flew in all kinds of wind and weather 

conditions.  I learned a lot.  Some good and some very bad.  The bad part 

was my fault, not the airplanes'.



BTW:  I also practiced a lot of dead stick landings.  Wish I could execute 

them now as good as I could 20 years ago.  The reason, I don't practice 

nearly enough.



Looking forward to seeing Frank G at Monument Valley, May 2010.  Hope I get 

there early so I can watch Frank land and see the big ass grin on his face 

when he taxiis up to the tie down cable.



Experiencing my second dust storm in Moab.  First since John W, Boyd Y, and 

I rode one out at the airport a few years ago.



john h

mkIII

Moab, Utah

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

dalewhelan

Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 105
Location: USA ARIZONA fountain hills

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Firestars & gusts?????

Frank, I have done 17kts at about 45 degrees without problems but not without attention.

I also glt hit by 20 MPH at 90 degrees and stomped on the brakes to stop a ground loop damaged the nose.

I usually do wheel landings in crosswind although I have heard people argue for 3 pointers in crosswind.

Flew today with 20+ winds, only one crosswind takeoff, a bit sloppy, all else into the wind

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_________________
Dale Whelan
503 powered Firestar II, Luscombe 8A
Projection, A simple and interesting Psychological concept

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Firestars & gusts?????

Hey Mr. Frank,



Not an expert, just passing on my experiences.



I too had done some crosswind and higher wind condition practice prior to my trip to MV.



I have to build up to that point and stay proficient to be be ahead of the plane.  Practice, practice, practice is the only way I can maintain that skill level.  If I take the easy path of light wind flying, I have to make myself go out and start again.



I was a faithful three point lander until my trip out west in some pretty stiff conditions.  I got converted to three point landings quickly.  Found it easier to wing low and wheel land in the conditions you describe.  I found that you can stick it on the runway with a little more speed and rudder authority. Kinda need to have decent brakes that you can finesse.  Not sure if you have that on your Firestar.



One additonal thing to consider that I neglected in my practice for the long XC's.  That would be tailwind landings.  As you know, MV (UT25) is one way in and one way out.  It really got my attention after a long day of flying from Vernon, TX  to MV and arrive with the wind blowing in the wrong direction.  When I flared, I thought I was going 90 mph.  Weird feeling and unusual visual cues.  Consider putting that on your list when you get more comfortable.  



I also learned how to "B-52 takeoff and land" at the higher density altitudes.  Of course, some of that I learned the hard way!



Need to fly, but raining most of  my off-days lately.



Practice your shortfield stuff too.  Maybe you could join us for the Nauga Field Fly-Around the first weekend in December.  Love for you to join us.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/LS35



Above all, please be careful.

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_________________
Thanks too much,

John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA

I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for.

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Firestars & gusts?????

Hi John,

Nauga Field in early Dec. sounds like it MIGHT be doable. If I can get  

in enough X country

practice, and my skill level improves enough so I can be confortable  

on that long a X countrty.



Also I've got to talk with John H about how to camp. Haven't done that  

in about 30 years.



Thanks for your advice, I think you hit the nail pretty much on the  

head.

Frank Goodnight

Firestar2

Brownsville, TX.



On Oct 5, 2009, at 11:41 AM, John Bickham wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Hey Mr. Frank,



 Not an expert, just passing on my experiences.



 I too had done some crosswind and higher wind condition practice  

 prior to my trip to MV.



 I have to build up to that point and stay proficient to be be ahead  

 of the plane.  Practice, practice, practice is the only way I can  

 maintain that skill level.  If I take the easy path of light wind  

 flying, I have to make myself go out and start again.



 I was a faithful three point lander until my trip out west in some  

 pretty stiff conditions.  I got converted to three point landings  

 quickly.  Found it easier it wing low and wheel land in the  

 conditions you describe.  I found that you can stick it on the  

 runway with a little more speed and rudder authority.



 One additonal thing to consider that I neglected in my practice for  

 the long XC's.  That would be tailwind landings.  As you know, MV  

 (UT25) is one way in and one way out.  It really got my attention  

 after a long day of flying from Vernon, TX  to MV and arrive with  

 the wind blowing in the wrong direction.  When I flared, I thought I  

 was going 90 mph.  Weird feeling and unusual visual cues.  Consider  

 putting that on your list when you get more comfortable.



 I also learned how to "B-52 takeoff and land" at the higher density  

 altitudes.  Of course, some of that I learned the hard way!



 Need to fly, but raining all my off-days lately.



 Practice your shortfield stuff too.  Maybe you could join us for the  

 Nauga Field Fly-Around the first weekend in December.  Love for you  

 to join us.

 http://www.airnav.com/airport/LS35



 Above all, please be careful.



 --------

 Thanks too much,



 John Bickham

 Mark III-C w/ 912UL

 St. Francisville, LA



 I know many pilots and a few true aviators.  There is a distinct  

 difference that I have the greatest respect for.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 66623#266623

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John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Firestars & gusts?????

Mr. Frank,



First....

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was a faithful three point lander until my trip out west in some pretty stiff conditions. I got converted to three point landings quickly. 	


Should have read, "I got converted to wheel landings quickly."



Second...



Don't stress too much about the camping gear except for the intermittent stops.  If you fly the Firestar that far, we'll take care of anything you might need once you are here.  You kinda get adopted once you are here.  Jimmy Y may be able to help out in between  .



Important to be comfortable with short fields over obstacles (trees).  Nauga is Kolb friendly but it will get your attention if you are used to landing on long runways with clear approaches.

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WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Firestars & gusts?????

Hi Frank,

 I have landed my FireStar in some bad winds.  One time Dave Rains and  I were landing in Apple Valley, when on the base leg, the automated wind shear  alert came on over the radio.  While taxing very slow the tail on my  FireStar came up because of the gusting winds. When we got to parking we needed  the assistance of the ground crew to hold the FireStars so we can get off the  tie them down. When we walked into the FBO the heavy iron drivers couldn't  believe we were flying in that wind everybody else was grounded.

 This was one time my Kolb far exceeded my skill or someone with greater  powers was looking over us.

 Another time after I landed in very gusty winds I was opening the hanger  doors when the wind started pushing the FireStar back.   I almost lost it had I it not been for someone who came over and helped me put  it in the hanger.  Check out the wind sock on this picture after we had  just landed.

 

 Regard,

 Will Uribe

 El Paso, TX

 FireStar II N4GU

   	  Quote: 	
		      

    

      In a message dated 10/4/2009 1:01:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,    frank.goodnight(at)att.net writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  -->      Kolb-List message posted by: "frank.goodnight"      <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>



Decided to pratice takeoffs and      landings today , in gusty conditions.



Firestar 2 (at) 725lbs

Runway      heading 13

wind 170 (at) 14k gusting 20k, gust were rather closely      spaced.

DA 2400 ft.



My goal was to touch down within 50 yards of      my selected touch down  

point and feel

safe and in compleat      control. I couldn't do it. I was really pushing  

it to stay within      100 yards.

I only did 6 landings because I felt like I was at or maybe      exceading  

my skill limits.



As I am planing 2 rather long X      countrys this spring, one to Utah &  

one to Sun&Fun,      I'm

sure I'll run into rough weather and I need to pratice for      it.



MY questions to anyone who flys a firestar are , what do you      think is  

a reasonable limit for

the firestar regarding gusty      conditions and crosswind components?



I realize that each pilot has a      different skill level, I,m trying to  

raise mine up to what the      airplane can do, but I don't want to push  

hard enough to get in      trouble. any thoughts will be appreciated

and helpful.



Frank      Goodnight

Firestar2 HKS 55161

Brownsville ,  ======================== the  lities   7-Day  ================================================                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================               - List Contribution Web Site                                 ===================================================

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Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Firestars & gusts?????

 	  Quote: 	
		  Don't stress too much about the camping gear except for the intermittent stops. If you fly the Firestar that far, we'll take care of anything you might need once you are here. You kinda get adopted once you are here. Jimmy Y may be able to help out in between 	




Frank,



 Yes, I plan to fly to Nauga Field in December, and you're most definitely welcome to RON at our place here in Angelton, Bailes Field (7R9). I'm planning on going to Nauga, and we could fly together. I am close to the halfway point for you so it would work out well, and would be a lot of fun. We'll stay in touch.



Jimmy Y[/quote]

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_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

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