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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: Props

Guys,

  

     Now that Power fin has gone out of business what other  prop is as light weight, that is also adjustable and rigid?  I was  intending on getting one for my Firefly, because I was told it did not flex so  badly at idle like the Ivo. Also because I need to keep it light.

  

  

  

        Ed Diebel

  

           Houston  Tx     FF# 62

                                                                    



  [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: Props

At 01:12 AM 10/4/2009, DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		      Now that Power fin has gone out of business what other prop is as light weight, that is also adjustable and rigid?  I was intending on getting one for my Firefly, because I was told it did not flex so badly at idle like the Ivo. Also because I need to keep it light. 	


 Powerfins are very light, but fragile... bad news for a pusher where the landing gear may kick rocks into it.  I watched a MKIII crash after the Powerfin prop exploded on takeoff at about 50' (shouldn't have been a crash but the pilot concentrated on shutting down the engine instead of flying the plane).  The owner had repaired nicks in the prop from gravel strikes without realizing the cracks extended all the way through the rigid part into the foam core.



 If I was in the market for a plastic prop, it'd be a Warp Drive.  Not as light as the Powerfin but very rigid and bulletproof..



 Of course if you want light weight there's also the GSC adjustable wood props <http://www.ultralightprops.com/tech_series_props/gsc_tech_groundadjust.htm>.  I have one on one of my PPG's; they're beautifully made and less expensive than any plastic prop.



 -Dana

 --

  (A)bort, (R)etry, (P)retend it didn't happen?    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Props

Remind me when I get home.  I disected a Warp Drive prop blade grip and also a GSC.  You may change your mind about GSC after you see these two photos.



The reason I started flying Warp Drive Props in 1993, was GSC.  I had a GSC 3 blade wood prop mounted on a 582 on my mkIII.  During climb out at WOT a blade failed, hit the tail boom, and collected the other two blades.  I couldn't afford for this to happen again.  GSC promptly sent me a new prop and hub.  I promptly sold it.



Moab, Utah

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: Props

John,



If I knew where your GSC prop blade failed ... I have since forgotten.

Where did the blade fail?  I do recall when building a SS for the twin

engine 2si engine package, that I cut out a piece of 6" tubing and made a

doubler plate for the fuselage tube under the prop area.  Maybe this was an

inspiration from your GSC prop experience.



Dennis



--

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: Props

> If I knew where your GSC prop blade failed ... I have since forgotten.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Where did the blade fail?



 Dennis


	


Dennis S/Gang:



I have an idea the double K&N air filter I was using decided to depart its 

normal location and went through the prop.  Either that or one blade failed, 

hitting the tail boom, and collected the other two blades.  Had a large dent 

in the tail boom, which was knocked about 5 to 10 degrees out of column. 

Had no idea they tail boom was no longer straight until after I landed.



I was in a steep climbing attitude, WOT, when I experienced a very loub 

explosion and immediate terrific vibration.  I didn't have time to shut down 

the engine.  When the prop failed, it instantaneously shook both carbs out 

of their sockets.  Only thing holding them on to the aircraft was the 

cables.  I had the standard Rotax starter mounted on the mag eng of the 582. 

It was hanging by the positive battery cable after the bell housing broke.



I put the mkIII in a shoe box forced landing area.  Thank God I had 40 

degrees of flaps to get me down and stopped before I hit a large bamboo 

thicket.  I had to ground loop the mkIII to keep from hitting the thicket. 

To add to my delema, the Johnson grass in the field was shoulder high.  Did 

not put a scratch on the mkIII during the forced landing.



Says a lot for the capability of the Kolb MKIII.  Not a classic, because 

there were no classics until the MKIIIx came along.  Don't change the 

designation of my MKIII because of that.  I have a MKIII, and TNK designed a 

MKIII Extra.  



john h

mkIII

Moab, Utah

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: Props

Amazing how focussed you attention gets in these circumstances.

-and how glad you feel when you survive intact.

BB

do not archive

On 4, Oct 2009, at 3:36 PM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 > If I knew where your GSC prop blade failed ... I have since  

 forgotten.

> Where did the blade fail?

>

> Dennis

 Dennis S/Gang:

 I have an idea the double K&N air filter I was using decided to  

 depart its normal location and went through the prop.  Either that  

 or one blade failed, hitting the tail boom, and collected the other  

 two blades.  Had a large dent in the tail boom, which was knocked  

 about 5 to 10 degrees out of column. Had no idea they tail boom was  

 no longer straight until after I landed.

 I was in a steep climbing attitude, WOT, when I experienced a very  

 loub explosion and immediate terrific vibration.  I didn't have  

 time to shut down the engine.  When the prop failed, it  

 instantaneously shook both carbs out of their sockets.  Only thing  

 holding them on to the aircraft was the cables.  I had the standard  

 Rotax starter mounted on the mag eng of the 582. It was hanging by  

 the positive battery cable after the bell housing broke.

 I put the mkIII in a shoe box forced landing area.  Thank God I had  

 40 degrees of flaps to get me down and stopped before I hit a large  

 bamboo thicket.  I had to ground loop the mkIII to keep from  

 hitting the thicket. To add to my delema, the Johnson grass in the  

 field was shoulder high.  Did not put a scratch on the mkIII during  

 the forced landing.

 Says a lot for the capability of the Kolb MKIII.  Not a classic,  

 because there were no classics until the MKIIIx came along.  Don't  

 change the designation of my MKIII because of that.  I have a  

 MKIII, and TNK designed a MKIII Extra.  

 john h

 mkIII

 Moab, Utah

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: Props

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		    Now that Power fin has gone out of business what other prop is as 

 light weight, that is also adjustable and rigid? I was intending on 

 getting one for my Firefly, because I was told it did not flex so 

 badly at idle like the Ivo. Also because I need to keep it light.

 

 

 

  Ed Diebel


	


This is NOT about how bad Ivo props are,,,many love them.... but 

rather one of the reasons I'm not wild about them ( I have a Warp on 

mine).



Test flew another gentleman's FS 2 with an Ivo and was really 

surprised at the stall characteristics. Just as I approached a stall 

the Ivo would "unload"/cavitate and instead of a nice smooth break 

the plane would quit flying immediately, not buffet a bit as mine 

will. The airspeed would dramatically drop as the prop stopped 

producing any thrust whatsoever. Really bad behaviour.....

Jim Baker

580.788.2779

405. 426.5377 cell

Elmore City, OK

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: Props

John, how did you extract the Kolb from the shoebox?

BB

do not archive

On 4, Oct 2009, at 3:36 PM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 > If I knew where your GSC prop blade failed ... I have since  

 forgotten.

> Where did the blade fail?

>

> Dennis

 Dennis S/Gang:

 I have an idea the double K&N air filter I was using decided to  

 depart its normal location and went through the prop.  Either that  

 or one blade failed, hitting the tail boom, and collected the other  

 two blades.  Had a large dent in the tail boom, which was knocked  

 about 5 to 10 degrees out of column. Had no idea they tail boom was  

 no longer straight until after I landed.

 I was in a steep climbing attitude, WOT, when I experienced a very  

 loub explosion and immediate terrific vibration.  I didn't have  

 time to shut down the engine.  When the prop failed, it  

 instantaneously shook both carbs out of their sockets.  Only thing  

 holding them on to the aircraft was the cables.  I had the standard  

 Rotax starter mounted on the mag eng of the 582. It was hanging by  

 the positive battery cable after the bell housing broke.

 I put the mkIII in a shoe box forced landing area.  Thank God I had  

 40 degrees of flaps to get me down and stopped before I hit a large  

 bamboo thicket.  I had to ground loop the mkIII to keep from  

 hitting the thicket. To add to my delema, the Johnson grass in the  

 field was shoulder high.  Did not put a scratch on the mkIII during  

 the forced landing.

 Says a lot for the capability of the Kolb MKIII.  Not a classic,  

 because there were no classics until the MKIIIx came along.  Don't  

 change the designation of my MKIII because of that.  I have a  

 MKIII, and TNK designed a MKIII Extra.  

 john h

 mkIII

 Moab, Utah

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: Props

 	  Quote: 	
		   John, how did you extract the Kolb from the shoebox?

 BB


	




Hi Bob B/Gang:



Pulled the wings and trailered it out.



Dinged the leading edge of the upper vertical stabilizer loading into the 

trailer.  ;-(



Little Mike sent me a "2d" tail boom, and I was back in business in a couple 

weeks, only to have the 582 seize.  Got it into a small hay field.  Wiped 

out the landing gear trying to fly it out.  That was the last flight of the 

mkIII until Bro Jim built new landing gear, and I repaired the damage, and 

installed my new 912.  That was winter of 93/94.  Flew again a couple days 

prior to Sun and Fun 1994.  Two months later it flew 17,400 miles in 41 days 

and 232.0 flight hours.  Think I got the bugs worked out of it by then.  



john h

mkIII - I break'em.  Me and Bro Jim fix'em.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: Props

In a message dated 10/4/2009 1:15:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  DAquaNut(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Now that    Power fin has gone out of business what other prop is as light weight, that is    also adjustable and rigid? 	
 Check out Hot Prop [formerly Kiev prop].  I prefer it over the  Warp.

  

 do not archive

  [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Props

[quote="HShack(at)aol.com"]In a message dated 10/4/2009 1:15:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  DAquaNut(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Now that    Power fin has gone out of business what other prop is as light weight, that is    also adjustable and rigid? 	
 Check out Hot Prop [formerly Kiev prop].  I prefer it over the  Warp.

  

 do not archive

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




I have a Kiev Hot prop in new condition for sale that fits the Rotax 912 /912-S with all mounting hardware.     I will sell my hot prop, but I will not recommend it.  It seems lighter and more fragile than the powerfin.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

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