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flap switch

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rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: flap switch

initially, my flap switch would engage in three increments, but now I  

have to mark my flap so i can manually lower it to its proper position  

for landing . what happened to the mechanism, and what is the fix? as  

always i appreciate all the wisdom. robert  brunkenhoefer  KCRP   

flying in conditional.

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: flap switch

If you have the flap positioning system, then it is possible that  

either one of the switches is bad or the rod is somehow messed up.  It  

is more likely that the controller is bad.  If the controller is  

working and one of the switches or rod is bad, then I would think that  

when you hit the flaps-down switch, it would go all the way down and  

the motor would keep on running because there would be no "limit  

switch" for the different position settings.  I have seen one system  

where the flaps went just beyond the last switch, so when the flaps  

stopped in the "down" position, if you hit the switch again they would  

go just beyond that position and the motor would keep running.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Oct 9, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 initially, my flap switch would engage in three increments, but now  

 I have to mark my flap so i can manually lower it to its proper  

 position for landing . what happened to the mechanism, and what is  

 the fix? as always i appreciate all the wisdom. robert   

 brunkenhoefer  KCRP  flying in conditional.

Nick Leonard

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: Re: flap switch

I am so glad that you brought this subject up.  I have been looking at developing a flap positioning system initially for my own use but with an eye on making it available to others.



The system would use one of two flap switches - either a rotary switch (ala Cirrus and others) that has a flap like handle that you click to the desired position.  The other switch format is like the Cessna vertical flap selector.  Different panel switches but the functionality would be the same.  In both cases, lights would indicate current position, selected position and transition state.  The system would be 12v or 24v and have multiple outputs for displaying the flap position on various electronic panels (Dynon, AFS, GRT, etc). Unlike the other flap positioning systems, you would lose the ability to stop the flaps between positions.



So my question is; is this a one-off project for myself or would others be interested in such a system?  I would expect the pricing to be in the same range as the other flap positioning systems.  What additional features might you want to see?



Thanks for your feedback. -Nick

_________________
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Flying

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: flap switch

This is just me thinking out loud here but given the fact there are at least 3 other systems today, I don't know if it would be worthwhile for even yourself.  I'm betting the $time$ involved for the one off would probably cost more than one of the COTS models.



Michael



--

Nick Leonard

Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 35
Location: Sacramento, CA

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: Re: flap switch

Michael,



You may well be right but what I'm building can't be adapted from one of the existing systems.  In fact, I have one of them now that I bought some time ago.  Personally, I would prefer the rotary switch approach and I have access to someone who can design the electronics so it should be an enjoyable project.

_________________
Nick Leonard
RV-10 (40015) Flying

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: flap switch

Robert-

  

 Suggest you stop and debug the situation. The motor could be running up against a stop when you think it is off. This could harm something and/or create a serious situation.

  

 During my installation I noticed that the flap motor will rotate the worm drive shell (say) clockwise when dropping the flaps and CCW when retracting the flaps. This causes the flap sensing rod to rotate and the microswitch rollers miss the detents. My suggestion is open the tunnel and watch the action as the flaps are lowered and raised. Maybe this will help in the problem resolution process.

  

 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB, 320 hrs

 



--- On Fri, 10/9/09, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

Subject: RE: Re: flap switch

To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 11:33 AM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)>



  This is just me thinking out loud here but given the fact there are at least 3 other systems today, I don't know if it would be worthwhile for even yourself.  I'm betting the $time$ involved for the one off would probably cost more than one of the COTS models.



Michael



--

cjhukill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: flap switch

I would be interested in another system for  controlling the flaps than Vans provides in they're version of the flap  positioning system. In my RV8, I have a simple momentary up, off, down switch.  Works great, lasts a long time. I look out over the left shoulder, and can see  the marks on the flaps, and just release the switch at the desired setting.  I have been flying a RV10 with the Vans positioning system installed, and  it seems to be more work (i.e. distraction), to get the flaps where you want  them, than to just hold and release the switch, like in my 8. Now with the  realization that the positioning system adds several failure points to the  equation, I think I am going to pass on it. I don't need a burned out actuator  while far from home. At least a "flap motor running" annunciator would be a  requirement for any system that can fail in that mode. I have flown the Cirrus,  and would be very much interested in a similar system to that. I think I'll walk  down to the local Cirrus service center, and check the price on one of those  switches, and logic boards, and talk to the mechanics on the reliability and  safeguards of that system. I will post my findings.

 I am about to figure out how to mount the RAC 1.2  inch position sensor to the flaps. Anybody got pictures of how they did  it?

 Chris Hukill

 temporarily out of fiberglass  hell

   [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: flap switch

Not sure what you mean that it's more work than your 8.  With the

standard positioner, it's just press and release just like you

say.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Chris Hukill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would be interested in another system for controlling the flaps than 

 Vans provides in they're version of the flap positioning system. In my 

 RV8, I have a simple momentary up, off, down switch. Works great, lasts 

 a long time. I look out over the left shoulder, and can see the marks on 

 the flaps, and just release the switch at the desired setting. I have 

 been flying a RV10 with the Vans positioning system installed, and it 

 seems to be more work (i.e. distraction), to get the flaps where you 

 want them, than to just hold and release the switch, like in my 8. Now 

 with the realization that the positioning system adds several failure 

 points to the equation, I think I am going to pass on it. I don't need a 

 burned out actuator while far from home. At least a "flap motor running" 

 annunciator would be a requirement for any system that can fail in that 

 mode. I have flown the Cirrus, and would be very much interested in a 

 similar system to that. I think I'll walk down to the local Cirrus 

 service center, and check the price on one of those switches, and logic 

 boards, and talk to the mechanics on the reliability and safeguards of 

 that system. I will post my findings.

 I am about to figure out how to mount the RAC 1.2 inch position sensor 

 to the flaps. Anybody got pictures of how they did it?

 Chris Hukill

 temporarily out of fiberglass hell

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: flap switch

[quote] There's pictures of my RAC POS-12 sensor install in this previous post here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=38195&highlight=pos12

   

 Also, I've been having trouble with my Van's flap positioning system lately. I've done some trouble shooting but haven't yet pin pointed the issue. It tends to stop at random places on the way down.

   

 -Jim

 40134

  

  On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:03 AM, Chris Hukill <cjhukill(at)cox.net (cjhukill(at)cox.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    I would be interested in another system for controlling the flaps than Vans provides in they're version of the flap positioning system. In my RV8, I have a simple momentary up, off, down switch. Works great, lasts a long time. I look out over the left shoulder, and can see the marks on the flaps, and just release the switch at the desired setting. I have been flying a RV10 with the Vans positioning system installed, and it seems to be more work (i.e. distraction), to get the flaps where you want them, than to just hold and release the switch, like in my 8. Now with the realization that the positioning system adds several failure points to the equation, I think I am going to pass on it. I don't need a burned out actuator while far from home. At least a "flap motor running" annunciator would be a requirement for any system that can fail in that mode. I have flown the Cirrus, and would be very much interested in a similar system to that. I think I'll walk down to the local Cirrus service center, and check the price on one of those switches, and logic boards, and talk to the mechanics on the reliability and safeguards of that system. I will post my findings.

  I am about to figure out how to mount the RAC 1.2 inch position sensor to the flaps. Anybody got pictures of how they did it?

 Chris Hukill

 temporarily out of fiberglass hell

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	




[b]

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: flap switch

I used a momentary switch from McMaster Carr. The switch is  spring loaded to move down flaps. Returns to center position to shut off  the flap motor. When the switch is flipped up the flaps move up until switch  returned to center. I have a red LED wired in the circuit to remind me if I left  the switch in the up position and the motor is running. Of course I also have a  starter running light as well.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Bob-tcw

Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:59 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: ***SPAM*** flap  switch

 Chris,   You may want to take a look at  our Flap Controller.  It works with the standard momentary down,  maintained up type flap switches.  The TCW flap controller allows  for pilot and co-pilot flap switches, it includes a 15 second run timer to shut  off the flap motor if you leave the flap switch(es) in the up  position.   The flap controller takes care of the conflict  if one of the flap switches is left in the up positon.  It also connects to  an airspeed switch providing vfe protection.

 All the details are at www.tcwtech.com

 Bob Newman

 [quote]   ---

marcausman

Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 70

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: Re: flap switch

You might also consider that the flap system behaves slightly differently in the air than on the ground, due to the air loads. Some people report problems in the air but not on the ground.

_________________
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com "Move up to a modern electrical system"
RV-7 IO-390 Flying

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