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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted statements.
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame. The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
<![if !supportLists]>1) <![endif]>We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
<![if !supportLists]>2) <![endif]>Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
<![if !supportLists]>3) <![endif]>If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today – nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple of local machine shops.
Phil
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Phil, I think the bushing idea, accomplishes much of the same thing that
the Rivethead/Dineri Receivers do. Why not just install them?
Deems Davis
N519PJ
www.deemsrv10.com
Perry, Phil wrote:
| Quote: |
Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have
spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how
they function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted
statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon
block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully
extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on
the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do
is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The
bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and
the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the
bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame.
The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the
door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really
depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to
the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of
engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door
side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material
and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today –
nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra
protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some
structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple
of local machine shops.
Phil
|
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Good idea Phil! Not having given it much thought since I read your
email, I have this small comment. I'd use an oilite bushing .....
because they can be bought in almost any size, and most come with the
flange. I'd put the flange on the door side .... otherwise the pins may
push it through into the fuse. If you leave the aluminum hole the same
size of the pin, then you can use the aluminum to control how deep the
bearing will go. Just a thought ..... may be easier and less expensive
to have a machine shop build something.
Linn
do not archive.
Perry, Phil wrote:
| Quote: | Good morning,
I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have
spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how they
function.
This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted
statements.
1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door
pins ;
2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon
block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully
extend in to the frame.
Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on
the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do
is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The
bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and
the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the
bushing. (~5/8”)
Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame.
The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the
door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really
depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to the
door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of engaging
could be captured by the bushing; or
3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door
side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material
and into the door frame.
Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today –
nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra
protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some
structural support further up the door pins.
Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple
of local machine shops.
Phil
|
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Thanks Linn.
I was thinking of using a large enough flange that you could hold the flange with 3/32 rivets.
I also thought about a 2 piece bushing with a flange on both sides. They could screw together mid way thru.
Phil
---
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tomhanaway
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Murphy, NC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea |
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Since many had a very bad experience with purchases from the rivethead website, I highly recommend using http://www.iflyrv10.com/ (steve dineri) if you decide to purchase the door pin jambs.
Tom H.
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:51 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
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Hi
Steve Deneri also has door blocks at IFLYRV10.COM.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Danny Riggs
Sent: October-06-09 11:05 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Pin - Idea
I think Phil's idea has lots of merit. However, like Deems said, the Rivethead aluminum blocks do the same thing and already are available. People who are debating this have obviously NOT seem the Rivethead design and what it has accomplished. That said, Phil's idea would work very well also. I just finished the latches on my doors using the Rivethead method. Those doors are going nowhere unless the door can bulge out about 12" in the middle. Not likely. (I hope, otherwise I got other problems  ). Dan
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:14:17 -0700
> From: deemsdavis(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>
> Phil, I think the bushing idea, accomplishes much of the same thing that
> the Rivethead/Dineri Receivers do. Why not just install them?
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
> >
> > Good morning,
> >
> > I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have
> > spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how
> > they function.
> >
> > This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
> >
> > I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted
> > statements.
> >
> > 1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
> >
> > 2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
> >
> > The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon
> > block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully
> > extend in to the frame.
> >
> > Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on
> > the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do
> > is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The
> > bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and
> > the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the
> > bushing. (~5/8”)
> >
> > Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame.
> > The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the
> > door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
> >
> > At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
> >
> > 1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
> >
> > 2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really
> > depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to
> > the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of
> > engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
> >
> > 3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door
> > side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material
> > and into the door frame.
> >
> > Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today –
> > nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra
> > protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
> >
> > This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some
> > structural support further up the door pins.
> >
> > Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple
> > of local machine shops.
> >
> > Phil
>======================
>================
>
>
>
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email s='_new'>Get it now. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
|
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I own a set of the Rivet Head blocks and pins…. They’re nice and they’re definitely better than the stock setup.
I am still wanting to use them, but I’ll probably change their role a bit. I’ll probably drill them so the door pin can pass through the aluminum. IIRC, they do not pass through the frame.
You could use the bushing the rivet head in parallel and get the best of both worlds.
Phil
From: Danny Riggs [mailto:jdriggs49(at)msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:05 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door Pin - Idea
I think Phil's idea has lots of merit. However, like Deems said, the Rivethead aluminum blocks do the same thing and already are available. People who are debating this have obviously NOT seem the Rivethead design and what it has accomplished. That said, Phil's idea would work very well also. I just finished the latches on my doors using the Rivethead method. Those doors are going nowhere unless the door can bulge out about 12" in the middle. Not likely. (I hope, otherwise I got other problems ). Dan
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:14:17 -0700
> From: deemsdavis(at)cox.net
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Door Pin - Idea
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net>
>
> Phil, I think the bushing idea, accomplishes much of the same thing that
> the Rivethead/Dineri Receivers do. Why not just install them?
>
> Deems Davis
> N519PJ
> www.deemsrv10.com
>
> Perry, Phil wrote:
> >
> > Good morning,
> >
> > I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have
> > spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how
> > they function.
> >
> > This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
> >
> > I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted
> > statements.
> >
> > 1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door pins ;
> >
> > 2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
> >
> > The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon
> > block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully
> > extend in to the frame.
> >
> > Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on
> > the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do
> > is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The
> > bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top and
> > the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate the
> > bushing. (~5/8”)
> >
> > Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame.
> > The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the
> > door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
> >
> > At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
> >
> > 1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
> >
> > 2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really
> > depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to
> > the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of
> > engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
> >
> > 3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the door
> > side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the material
> > and into the door frame.
> >
> > Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today –
> > nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra
> > protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
> >
> > This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some
> > structural support further up the door pins.
> >
> > Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a couple
> > of local machine shops.
> >
> > Phil
>======================
>================
>
>
>
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email s='_new'>Get it now. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
|
|
The whole sentence below changes with one missed word!!!
Linn
Linn Walters wrote:
| Quote: |
Good idea Phil! Not having given it much thought since I read your
email, I have this small comment. I'd use an oilite bushing .....
because they can be bought in almost any size, and most come with the
flange. I'd put the flange on the door side .... otherwise the pins may
push it through into the fuse. If you leave the aluminum hole the same
size of the pin, then you can use the aluminum to control how deep the
bearing will go.
|
Just a thought ..... may be easier and less expensive THAN to have a
machine shop build something.
| Quote: | Linn
do not archive.
Perry, Phil wrote:
> Good morning,
>
>
>
> I haven’t reached the door fitting section of the kit yet, but I have
> spent some time reviewing the plans (thank Tim) to get an idea how
> they function.
>
>
>
> This morning I woke up with an idea that might solve the door issue.
>
>
>
> I’m going to boil the door issue down to a couple of widely accepted
> statements.
>
> 1) The Nylon blocks are only there to act as a guide for the door
> pins ;
>
> 2) The door pins must extend completely through the aluminum frame.
>
>
>
> The idea (highly complex) is designed to transfer load from the nylon
> block area and into the aluminum frame – even if the pins do not fully
> extend in to the frame.
>
>
>
> Attached is a drawing and it involves installing a flanged bushing on
> the backside of the aluminum frame. The only thing we will have to do
> is slightly oversize the 7/16” hole (say 5/8”) in the aluminum. The
> bushing will bring the hole size back down to 7/16”. The cabin top
> and the nylon block will also have to be drilled larger to accommodate
> the bushing. (~5/8”)
>
>
>
> Now we install the bushing from the back side of the aluminum frame.
> The flange sits firmly against the aluminum and extends (towards the
> door) through the aluminum, cabin top, and nylon block.
>
>
>
> At the nylon block, we have a couple of options with the bushing.
>
> 1) We can cut the bushing off flush with the nylon block; or
>
> 2) Extend the bushing some distance (maybe 1/16” or 1/8” – really
> depends on how your doors fit) to extend the carry through closer to
> the door. This way a door pin that would typically fall short of
> engaging could be captured by the bushing; or
>
> 3) If we use the proper material, we could add a flare to the
> door side and the flare would act as a door pin guide through the
> material and into the door frame.
>
>
>
> Finally, if your door pins go all the way through the metal today –
> nothing changes. You’re still good – but just have a little extra
> protection against the not-so-fully-engaged door pin.
>
>
>
> This would also help with the door bulge theory by bringing some
> structural support further up the door pins.
>
>
>
> Anyone have any thoughts? I think I’m going to call around to a
> couple of local machine shops.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: Door Pin - Idea |
|
|
<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
Is anyone manufacturing parts for this approach? This is the best solution that I have seen. Ideally, it would have two detents; one with the door completely closed and one so the door is cracked open slightly for taxi.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=26526&highlight=v
[quote][b]
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