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info(at)flylightning.net
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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As you all may know the FAA recently published the new AC for EAB. AC-20-27G now includes item like the definition of Fabrication,
An addition about commercial assistance, and a new Fabrication and Assembly checklist. The check list is appendix 8 to the document.
Many have asked about if the Lightning kit in its current form would comply to the new check list. Arion Aircraft has spent the better part of the day going thru this list.
We have followed the AC’s guidance as best as we could interpret it and have come up with some good numbers.
The new list gives 4 categories in which 1 total point can be awarded for an individual task.
You can add or delete tasks as required based on the aircraft design and it application at hand.
Using the guide provided and the summary chart at the end of the appendix we have found that;
Builder assembly counts for 30.0% of the kit.
Builder fabrication counts for 30.2% of the kit.
Kit Manufacturer ( Arion Aircraft, LLC) accounts for 39.8%.
This gives the builder 60.2% of the work required, well above the 51% required.
This also does not take into account a builder whom; wires their own panel, paints there own aircraft, and builds their own interior.
All items they will get more credit for. The Check list does not penalize a builder for hiring these items out, but does credit own who is willing to perform those tasks.
The New AC does state that a kit need not be on the approved 51% list to receive and inspection or AWC. For aircraft not on the approved current list, the builder should fill out the provided check list for the DAR when time comes for the inspection.
We have started the paper work to have the Kit evaluation team come to Arion Aircraft, LLC at there earliest convenience to inspect the Lightning kit and have it added to the list.
I hope that any one interested in building a lightning as there next project will remain so, and read the AC carefully. There is much speculation and “Expert” opinions out there, but rest assured the rule has not changed for the home builder and building a kit not on the approved list was not, and still is not a problem.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bill Strahan
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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One of my favorite aspects of ALL of my dealings with Arion has been the fantastic combination of a high degree of professionalism and a fun-hearted approach to what they do.
I feel this is an unbeatable quality in a company, and one which I have strived to create in any organization I have been part of.
With recent troll activity in particular it would have been quite easy to have formulated a response that was further from these two ideals than I know Nick and company strive for.
I've known many seasoned CEOs with multiple degrees to their name that don't handle themselves with the same degree of professionalism that Nick exhibits on a regular basis both in this forum and in my dealings with him directly.
If I had not already built a Lightning, this would weigh heavily in my decision to do so. I continue to be impressed.
Bill
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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Thank you Bill.
Nick
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marvinlnaz(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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Nick. How does the 'Factory build assist' play into this?Marvin
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: "flylightning" <info(at)flylightning.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:11:10 -0500
To: <lightning-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Lightning-List: Lightning and the 51% rule
As you all may know the FAA recently published the = new AC for EAB. AC-20-27G now includes item like the definition of = Fabrication,
An addition about commercial assistance, and a new Fabrication and Assembly checklist. The check list is appendix 8 to the document.
Many have asked about if the Lightning kit in its = current form would comply to the new check list. Arion Aircraft has spent the = better part of the day going thru this list.
We have followed the AC’s guidance as best as = we could interpret it and have come up with some good numbers. =
The new list gives 4 categories in which 1 total = point can be awarded for an individual task.
You can add or delete tasks as required based on the aircraft design and it application at hand.
Using the guide provided and the summary chart at the = end of the appendix we have found that;
Builder assembly counts for 30.0% of the = kit.
Builder fabrication counts for 30.2% of the = kit.
Kit Manufacturer ( Arion Aircraft, LLC) accounts for = 39.8%.
This gives the builder 60.2% of the work required, = well above the 51% required.
This also does not take into account a builder whom; = wires their own panel, paints there own aircraft, and builds their own = interior.
All items they will get more credit for. The Check = list does not penalize a builder for hiring these items out, but does credit own = who is willing to perform those tasks.
The New AC does state that a kit need not be on the = approved 51% list to receive and inspection or AWC. For aircraft not on the approved current list, the builder should fill out the provided check = list for the DAR when time comes for the inspection.
We have started the paper work to have the Kit = evaluation team come to Arion Aircraft, LLC at there earliest convenience to = inspect the Lightning kit and have it added to the = list.
I hope that any one interested in building a = lightning as there next project will remain so, and read the AC carefully. There is = much speculation and “Expert” opinions out there, but rest = assured the rule has not changed for the home builder and building a kit not on the approved list was not, and still is not a = problem.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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Marvin,
I believe we will have to look at what we do with the builders assist a little closer. We run an assist program here in TN, not a build it for you so we have always work along with the intent and spirit of the 51% rule. However now we will have to look at each individual thing we may help with or do that may cause a problem with the new rule. It is interesting though when you look at how the points are spread out or awarded to with a task. 1 point for each task. If that task already covered an Item where the MFG was awarded ˝ a point and the builder the other half, well a build assist would than be looking at what part of the ˝ a point the builder got would be considered assistance. So may be if we showed them how to set up the holes and measure the part and than the builder drilled it and assembled the part, we might get 1 or 2 tenths of the builders ˝ point and the builder would get 3-4 tenths instead of the whole 5 tenths of a point. This would mean a swing of 0.2% for the MFG. When considering that there is roughly 10% left that Arion Aircraft could do to the kit and still have the kit meet the rule than there is a lot that a build assist center could provide and not cause an eligibility problem for the builder. This may be different if the center drilled and cut all the parts and all the builder did was come and bolt something together, or the kit already was very marginal in the % required, but in the case of the Lightning kit it appears that when using the system and guidelines in the AC that this should remain a viable option for the Lightning kit and someone looking to get a bit of help building there plane.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of marvinlnaz(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:33 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning and the 51% rule
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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baproe(at)online.no
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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Good answer, also liked the interpretation on the new rulings. This helps allay my fears and concerns. Keep us informed as things progress.
Thanks
This might be good newsletter material.
Brian P.
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of flylightning
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:19 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Lightning and the 51% rule
Marvin,
I believe we will have to look at what we do with the builders assist a little closer. We run an assist program here in TN, not a build it for you so we have always work along with the intent and spirit of the 51% rule. However now we will have to look at each individual thing we may help with or do that may cause a problem with the new rule. It is interesting though when you look at how the points are spread out or awarded to with a task. 1 point for each task. If that task already covered an Item where the MFG was awarded ˝ a point and the builder the other half, well a build assist would than be looking at what part of the ˝ a point the builder got would be considered assistance. So may be if we showed them how to set up the holes and measure the part and than the builder drilled it and assembled the part, we might get 1 or 2 tenths of the builders ˝ point and the builder would get 3-4 tenths instead of the whole 5 tenths of a point. This would mean a swing of 0.2% for the MFG. When considering that there is roughly 10% left that Arion Aircraft could do to the kit and still have the kit meet the rule than there is a lot that a build assist center could provide and not cause an eligibility problem for the builder. This may be different if the center drilled and cut all the parts and all the builder did was come and bolt something together, or the kit already was very marginal in the % required, but in the case of the Lightning kit it appears that when using the system and guidelines in the AC that this should remain a viable option for the Lightning kit and someone looking to get a bit of help building there plane.
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of marvinlnaz(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:33 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Lightning and the 51% rule
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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Charles R Gallagher
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Lightning and the 51% rule |
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Bill,your comments and assessments of Nick and team are right on target. Pete and Nick obviously love what they are doing and it manifest itself through out the organization.The product continues to be perfected with each build which illustrates Arion's desire for continuous improvement. Who says innovation and excellence is dead in the USA. All the best,Regards,Charles Tue, 10/13/09, Bill Strahan <bill(at)gdsx.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Bill Strahan <bill(at)gdsx.com>
Subject: Re: Lightning and the 51% rule
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 1:13 PM
--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <[url=/mc/compose?to=bill(at)gdsx.com]bill(at)gdsx.com[/url]>
One of my favorite aspects of ALL of my dealings with Arion has been the fantastic combination of a high degree of professionalism and a fun-hearted approach to what they do.
I feel this is an unbeatable quality in a company, and one which I have strived to create in any organization I have been part of.
With recent troll activity in particular it would have been quite easy to have formulated a response that was further from these two ideals than I know Nick and company strive for.
I've known many seasoned CEOs with multiple degrees to their name that don't handle themselves with the same degree of professionalism that Nick exhibits on a regular basis both in this forum and in my dealings with him directly.
If I had not already built a Lightning, this would weigh heavily in my decision to do so. I continue to be impressed.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267769#267769
<.com/Navigator?Lightning-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N========================http://www.matronics.com/contribution============
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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