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Av8r3400
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)
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 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: Gas Tanks (One more time...) |
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I had a thought about the ethanol/gas tank issue.
We all can agree that ethanol and fiberglass (older resins) don't mix. But there are some folks out here (Dave?) that are running lots of ethanol through them without issue.
Hypothesis: Dave - You are running premix, right? I wonder if the oil in the fuel is "neutralizing" the bad effects of the ethanol. To that end, I wonder if adding a "Marvel Mystery Oil" or Stabil or something similar would calm down the ethanol effect on a non premix fuel supply.
There are people out here much smarter than me, does anyone have a thought on this?
Thanks.
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Av8r3400
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RobS
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Location: Durham, ME
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Gas Tanks (One more time...) |
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Av8r3400,
I am not an expert, but based on some of the things I've read about ethanol I have the following thoughts:
1. Ethanol (E10) does dissolve some fiberglass resins, but what I've read suggests it was older fiberglass tanks made before the mid-80s. This is also the case for plastic and/or rubber fuel lines, seals, o-rings, etc.
2. Phase separation, which happens when enough water enters the fuel, is a big problem because the water and ethanol mixture is heavier than gas (and oil) and would sink to the bottom of the tank. Which would cause a number of problems - lower the octane of the remaining gasoline - likely have the engine ingest a water/ethanol mixture because it would be at the lowest level in the tank - have the water separate from the ethanol at altitude due to the colder temperatures and then the engine would ingest straight water. And another bad thing is with vented tanks the ethanol will tend to attract the moisture from the air.
3. Another thing is that two-cycle engines have a special problem with ethanol blended fuels because of the fact that ethanol tends to displace oil on metal surfaces reducing the amount of lubrication resulting in increased wear and tear on the engine.
So, I'm not sure the oil/gas mixture is providing any protection or if the planes flying with an ethanol blend with no damage have newer fiberglass tanks and fuel lines which are less susceptible to the effects of ethanol. And I would wonder what the ethanol is doing to the long term health of the engine due to less lubrication. Again, I have no first hand experience with this and am only basing my comments on what I've read.
Rob
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Dick Maddux
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: Gas Tanks (One more time...) |
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As many of you know,I am a nut on British sports cars as well as aircraft. I have been seeking some products that"might" help in this alcohol debacle. Moss (a major British car parts supplier) sells a couple of products that are made by MDR. One is called E-XTEND which purportedly keeps alcohol fuel fresh for 60 days. I am using it in my Triumph TR3. The other product by MDR is called E-ZORB which is suppose to absorb and emulsify moisture in alcohol gas. Sta-bil makes a green marine formula for marine use with alcohol gas. I just bought another product from a European motorcycle shop that they are using in all their bikes. It is a product called STAR RON by Starbrite. It is an enzyme fuel treatment for E-10 fuel.
I will undoubtedly use one of these products in my Rotax when the last gas station in our area has to go to ethanol as these products are all fuel stabilizers as should be used in our engines. How well they work with alcohol,I don't know but more mfgrs are trying to find a solution.(and sell products)
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Rotax 912UL
Milton,Fl
[quote][b]
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dave
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Gas Tanks (One more time...) |
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NO pre mix
None of that hokey pokey Marvel oil ( Lard ,varsol mineral oil )
Post answered http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142
| Av8r3400 wrote: | I had a thought about the ethanol/gas tank issue.
We all can agree that ethanol and fiberglass (older resins) don't mix. But there are some folks out here (Dave?) that are running lots of ethanol through them without issue.
Hypothesis: Dave - You are running premix, right? I wonder if the oil in the fuel is "neutralizing" the bad effects of the ethanol. To that end, I wonder if adding a "Marvel Mystery Oil" or Stabil or something similar would calm down the ethanol effect on a non premix fuel supply.
There are people out here much smarter than me, does anyone have a thought on this?
Thanks. |
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