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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Is there any reason to not use the blue polyurethane fuel tubing from Bing on the pressure side of the fuel pump?  I need to replace some tubing and that is what I have on hand and understand can be used but the tubing that is coming off is 2 layer with webbing (presumably nylon) in between.  Is this heavy of tubing needed between the pump and the carb?



Sorry I always have the stupid questions, unfortunately I can spend all day at work on the net but if I bust out experimental aircraft manuals people get upset.



Thanks for the help.



James

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

James asked:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is there any reason to not use the blue polyurethane fuel tubing from Bing on the pressure side of the fuel pump? 	




That is what I have been using.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Now that there is time, here is why I am replacing the lines.  A fun "luck" story.  I was giving a ride to a friend and we took off in marginal winds, 10 gusting 17 straight down the runway, but it was the forecast high for the day so we went with it.  At some point I decided we were done and we headed back.  AWOS called 17 gusting 27 still straight down the runway, at least we were going to have a low ground speed at touchdown.  I opted to not do my normal 3 touch and goes to end the flight and we landed just the once with a walking speed touchdown and a 30 foot roll out.  As we got out my friend asked if the fluid draining out of the cowl was normal, it was fuel.  The fuel line that was used had become quite hardened and apparently cracked at the rear carb.  I later told my friend how if we had taken off on a touch and go the rear carb would have starved and we would have had partial power at best on climb out and we would have landed in a best case scenario with a 20 kt tail wind on the runway.



I figured the reinforced fuel line was excessive but I just couldn't step down straight to the blue lines with out knowing, so this morning I replaced both lines from the pump with fuel injection tubing so there was no question.  Clocked 1.3 today with no issues.  I will be switching to the bing lines through out when I redo the fuel system later this year.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

At 12:27 PM 10/11/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is there any reason to not use the blue polyurethane fuel tubing 

from Bing on the pressure side of the fuel pump?  I need to replace 

some tubing and that is what I have on hand and understand can be 

used but the tubing that is coming off is 2 layer with webbing 

(presumably nylon) in between.  Is this heavy of tubing needed 

between the pump and the carb?


	


James,

         I've been using it downstream of the pump for the last few 

years and about 460 hours. No problem. I replace the stuff in the 

engine compartment yearly, though. (Paranoid.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

I don't really think that is paranoia Guy.  $15 worth of tubing will redo the whole plane and it only takes an hour or so.  I would call that piece of mind.  I had not messed with any on mine since it had a fresh annual on purchase, of course it was done by the seller . . .

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

carlisle

Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 72
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?  One of my mechanic buddies had some extra lying around.  You know, the orange sleeve stuff with the little fibers inside (probably asbestos    that you slide onto the fuel tubing.  I think it's used on hydraulic lines on larger aircraft.  I'm not sure how much good it would do if there were a fire though and it's ugly to boot.



Chris

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

You should use it to cover any fuel lines forward of the firewall. You won't 

care about ugly if you have flames up there.    Larry

---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

If you think fire sleeve is ugly, think what this scene would have  

looked like if I DIDN'T have the fire sleeve in place. The flames  

which resulted from a broken off tail pipe were hot enough to blister  

the motor mount paint, char the fire sleeve, sneak around the battery  

box and melt a hole in the battery, and let the electrolyte out of  

one cell.



Even before this happened, I thought the fire sleeve was cool- 

looking. I now think it's even cooler!



p.s. There was an aluminum heat shield in place between the muffler  

and the carb....it is now made from stainless steel and it's bigger.  

Any future exhaust flames will find it a bit more difficult to get  

near the fuel lines or my Rotec TBI fuel-metering device...the Bing  

is gone.





Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 795.1 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying



On Oct 14, 2009, at 11:23 PM, carlisle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?  One of  

 my mechanic buddies had some extra lying around.  You know, the  

 orange sleeve stuff with the little fibers inside (probably  

 asbestos    that you slide onto the fuel tubing.  I think it's  

 used on hydraulic lines on larger aircraft.  I'm not sure how much  

 good it would do if there were a fire though and it's ugly to boot.



 Chris

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

I installed fire sleeve on the fuel lines forward of the fire wall.  It came with the kit.  I like the idea of just keeping heat off the lines in general as well as the flames incase of fire.



Prices are by the foot.  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aqfiresleeve.php

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

That picture replaces a thousand words.

thanks,

Deke

do not archive



---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:31 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

At 08:23 PM 10/14/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?


	


I use it throughout the engine compartment. I run the fire sleeve 

over the entire tube and put my hose clamp over the fire sleeve and 

blue tube in one go. That way the entire hose is fire sleeved. 

Haven't had a problem with this in 460 hours. I do make sure the fire 

sleeve fits tight on my blue hose. No baggy lines for me.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:51 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Chris, I have the firesleeve on my fuel lines. I don't have anything protecting my plastic primer lines though. Do any of you guys put fire sleeve on the primer lines? Seems like I should protect those also.

   

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

 On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM, carlisle <carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com (carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "carlisle" <carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com (carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com)>

 

Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?  One of my mechanic buddies had some extra lying around.  You know, the orange sleeve stuff with the little fibers inside (probably asbestos    that you slide onto the fuel tubing.  I think it's used on hydraulic lines on larger aircraft.  I'm not sure how much good it would do if there were a fire though and it's ugly to boot.

 

Chris





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[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

I would.....those lines would probably melt a lot quicker than the  

rubber/neoprene/blue line/whatever hoses. And if I'm not mistaken,  

isn't there some residual fuel left in those lines after a use of the  

primer? It seems like they would not drain completely after priming,  

and it they caught fire, the fire might find its way into the  

cabin....and that's where you sit, isn't it Pat? : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 795.1 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Oct 15, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Chris, I have the firesleeve on my fuel lines. I don't have  

 anything protecting my plastic primer lines though. Do any of you  

 guys put fire sleeve on the primer lines? Seems like I should  

 protect those also.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL



 On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM, carlisle <carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com>  

 wrote:

 



 Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?  One of  

 my mechanic buddies had some extra lying around.  You know, the  

 orange sleeve stuff with the little fibers inside (probably  

 asbestos    that you slide onto the fuel tubing.  I think it's  

 used on hydraulic lines on larger aircraft.  I'm not sure how much  

 good it would do if there were a fire though and it's ugly to boot.



 Chris





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 68004#268004

 Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http:// 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====





 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Lynn, I guess I'll have to find some small enough firesleeve to protect those primer lines. It doesn't make sense to protect the more fire resistant rubber lines and not the plastic primer lines. And, yes there is definitely gas in them.

   

 Pat Reilly

 On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

 

I would.....those lines would probably melt a lot quicker than the rubber/neoprene/blue line/whatever hoses. And if I'm not mistaken, isn't there some residual fuel left in those lines after a use of the primer? It seems like they would not drain completely after priming, and it they caught fire, the fire might find its way into the cabin....and that's where you sit, isn't it Pat? : )

 

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 795.1 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying  

On Oct 15, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:

 [quote] Chris, I have the firesleeve on my fuel lines. I don't have anything protecting my plastic primer lines though. Do any of you guys put fire sleeve on the primer lines? Seems like I should protect those also.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford,IL



On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM, carlisle <carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com (carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "carlisle" <carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com (carlisle_99(at)yahoo.com)>

 

Do you guys use any kind of fire shield on the fuel tubing?  One of my mechanic buddies had some extra lying around.  You know, the orange sleeve stuff with the little fibers inside (probably asbestos    that you slide onto the fuel tubing.  I think it's used on hydraulic lines on larger aircraft.  I'm not sure how much good it would do if there were a fire though and it's ugly to boot.

 

Chris





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268004#268004

 

Subscription,

www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

Matt Dralle, List Admin.

=====

 



 

 ist Un/Subscription,

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

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 Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

You might just eliminate the worries and go with  metal lines.  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  438+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert,  in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning  economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Ohmigod, yes.....I must've been in a fog, 'cause I didn't even think  

about that, Deke. And I just got done running some primer lines on a  

C-172...metal all the way, and stainless steel at that. Also, I was  

told that everything "north" of the firewall should not be copper  

either, let alone plastic. But after all, we are "experimental",  

aren't we? : )

Pat, you could slice the fire sleeve down the length of it and wrap  

it around the line(s) in question, then safety wire it in place. This  

would discourage the flames. I did this on my main fuel line where it  

runs under the seat, and was chafing on the bottom fabric. I didn't  

want to disturb the connections, so I just sliced a length of fire  

sleeve, wrapped it around the fuel line, and safety wired it in  

place. In this case it was more for anti-chafe than fire protection,  

but you get the idea.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 796.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:59 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] You might just eliminate the worries and go with metal lines.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

 "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

 Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

 -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)





 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Lynn, I found some firesleeve down to 1/4" I.D. in the LEAF catalog. Says it's a new product. I will order some when I get to the hanger to see how much I need. You live close to Deke?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL

 On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

Ohmigod, yes.....I must've been in a fog, 'cause I didn't even think about that, Deke. And I just got done running some primer lines on a C-172...metal all the way, and stainless steel at that. Also, I was told that everything "north" of the firewall should not be copper either, let alone plastic. But after all, we are "experimental", aren't we? : )

 



Pat, you could slice the fire sleeve down the length of it and wrap it around the line(s) in question, then safety wire it in place. This would discourage the flames. I did this on my main fuel line where it runs under the seat, and was chafing on the bottom fabric. I didn't want to disturb the connections, so I just sliced a length of fire sleeve, wrapped it around the fuel line, and safety wired it in place. In this case it was more for anti-chafe than fire protection, but you get the idea.  



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger



Jabiru 2200, #2062, 796.4 hrs  

Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying



On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:59 PM, fox5flyer wrote:

 

 [quote]You might just eliminate the worries and go with metal lines.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

 "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)   

 





---

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Deke, Thanks for suggestion. I found firesleve down to 1/4" I.D. in the LEAF catalog. Love Milton Friedman!

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:59 PM, fox5flyer <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net (fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net)> wrote:

 [quote]  You might just eliminate the worries and go with metal lines.  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

 -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)

  

  

  

  

 [quote] ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:41 pm Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

About 175 statute miles....he's up north of me in snow country, the  

lucky devil. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 796.4 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs~204 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Oct 15, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:



[quote] Lynn, I found some firesleeve down to 1/4" I.D. in the LEAF  

 catalog. Says it's a new product. I will order some when I get to  

 the hanger to see how much I need. You live close to Deke?



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford,IL



 On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

 wrote:

 



 Ohmigod, yes.....I must've been in a fog, 'cause I didn't even  

 think about that, Deke. And I just got done running some primer  

 lines on a C-172...metal all the way, and stainless steel at that.  

 Also, I was told that everything "north" of the firewall should not  

 be copper either, let alone plastic. But after all, we are  

 "experimental", aren't we? : )

 Pat, you could slice the fire sleeve down the length of it and wrap  

 it around the line(s) in question, then safety wire it in place.  

 This would discourage the flames. I did this on my main fuel line  

 where it runs under the seat, and was chafing on the bottom fabric.  

 I didn't want to disturb the connections, so I just sliced a length  

 of fire sleeve, wrapped it around the fuel line, and safety wired  

 it in place. In this case it was more for anti-chafe than fire  

 protection, but you get the idea.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 796.4 hrs



 Countdown to 1000 hrs~207 to go

 Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 Rotec TBI-40 injection

 Status: flying

 On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:59 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



 You might just eliminate the worries and go with metal lines.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT

 "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara

 Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."

 -- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: Blue Bing Fuel Tubing

Lynn<



Safety wire?  Is that airplane talk for bailing wire?  :>)



Pete

---

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