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thane
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot, but rather offer some very basic info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto conversions, vs. standard power plants.
FACTS:
My RV-10 :was loaded with full fuel, 60 gallons.
3, pax. and camping gear.
I have the BPE IO-540; 288 h.p. CAI. Hartzell blended 2 blade prop.
James plenum and holy cowl, and main wheel pants.
Other RV-10 : loaded with 50 gallons of fuel, due to fuel leak.
2 pax. and camping gear, lots of tools.
LS-2; 350 h.p. 3 blade prop, not sure which one.
We took off in loose formation climbing up to 11,500
After my initial pwr. reduction to 25" 2500 rpm, I was told by the other RV-10 that I was pulling away from him, so I pulled the pwr back to around 23" and he said he was able to keep up.
Later in cruise, I was again asked to pull back due to pulling away from him.
I finally ran at 55% pwr LOP. 10 GPH. And he was comfortable and kept up fine.
However, After we compared stats, he advised me that he was burning 13-14 GPH. When I was still at 10 GPH.
We continued on our flight constantly comparing #'s We ran approx. the same prop speed and pwr settings as stated.
However after around 2:45 in cruise and 10 minutes from fuel stop, the other RV-10 stated that he had only 30 minutes of fuel left, when I had 3 hrs. left.
We did find out that the other tank might have had a fuel leak in it as well. This is what he told me I could no validate that, just interesting, I thought.
So just my observation. I could clearly pull away from a much more powerful LS-2 powered RV-10 in climb and in cruise. And all the while burning far less gas.
Again none of this was pre planned and at all scientific. Just 2 RV-10'S having fun and heading in the same direction on a beautiful day.
I don't know at what speed he would have been able to keep up and I don't know how accurate his fuel burn #'s were, I know mine are close to spot on!!
Just thought I would share this info with those who may be on the fence about pwr. plant choice.
I know I could not be more pleased with my engine choice!
Thane States
#40337
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Thanks Thane. I’m a big proponent of auto conversions, although I also went with a Barrett engine, but we need more data to understand the true value of the auto conversions. Any reports like this really help.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thane States
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2
Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot, but rather offer some very basic info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto conversions, vs. standard power plants.
FACTS:
My RV-10 :was loaded with full fuel, 60 gallons.
3, pax. and camping gear.
I have the BPE IO-540; 288 h.p. CAI. Hartzell blended 2 blade prop.
James plenum and holy cowl, and main wheel pants.
Other RV-10 : loaded with 50 gallons of fuel, due to fuel leak.
2 pax. and camping gear, lots of tools.
LS-2; 350 h.p. 3 blade prop, not sure which one.
We took off in loose formation climbing up to 11,500
After my initial pwr. reduction to 25" 2500 rpm, I was told by the other RV-10 that I was pulling away from him, so I pulled the pwr back to around 23" and he said he was able to keep up.
Later in cruise, I was again asked to pull back due to pulling away from him.
I finally ran at 55% pwr LOP. 10 GPH. And he was comfortable and kept up fine.
However, After we compared stats, he advised me that he was burning 13-14 GPH. When I was still at 10 GPH.
We continued on our flight constantly comparing #'s We ran approx. the same prop speed and pwr settings as stated.
However after around 2:45 in cruise and 10 minutes from fuel stop, the other RV-10 stated that he had only 30 minutes of fuel left, when I had 3 hrs. left.
We did find out that the other tank might have had a fuel leak in it as well. This is what he told me I could no validate that, just interesting, I thought.
So just my observation. I could clearly pull away from a much more powerful LS-2 powered RV-10 in climb and in cruise. And all the while burning far less gas.
Again none of this was pre planned and at all scientific. Just 2 RV-10'S having fun and heading in the same direction on a beautiful day.
I don't know at what speed he would have been able to keep up and I don't know how accurate his fuel burn #'s were, I know mine are close to spot on!!
Just thought I would share this info with those who may be on the fence about pwr. plant choice.
I know I could not be more pleased with my engine choice!
Thane States
#40337
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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What brand of PSRU did your friend have? Type of prop? Prop choice can also make a huge difference. Pretty hard to beat a Barrett Precision engine. i just wish I had the $52k they quoted me at Oshkosh!
From: rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thu C 15 Oct 2009 08:35:00 -0500
Subject: RE: BPE IO-540 C VS LS-2
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Thanks Thane. I’m a big proponent of auto conversions C although I also went with a Barrett engine C but we need more data to understand the true value of the auto conversions. Any reports like this really help.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thane States
Sent: Wednesday C October 14 C 2009 9:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: BPE IO-540 C VS LS-2
Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot C but rather offer some very basic info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto conversions C vs. standard power plants.
FACTS:
My RV-10 :was loaded with full fuel C 60 gallons.
3 C pax. and camping gear.
I have the BPE IO-540; 288 h.p. CAI. Hartzell blended 2 blade prop.
James plenum and holy cowl C and main wheel pants.
Other RV-10 : loaded with 50 gallons of fuel C due to fuel leak.
2 pax. and camping gear C lots of tools.
LS-2; 350 h.p. 3 blade prop C not sure which one.
We took off in loose formation climbing up to 11 C500
After my initial pwr. reduction to 25" 2500 rpm C I was told by the other RV-10 that I was pulling away from him C so I pulled the pwr back to around 23" and he said he was able to keep up.
Later in cruise C I was again asked to pull back due to pulling away from him.
I finally ran at 55% pwr LOP. 10 GPH. And he was comfortable and kept up fine.
However C After we compared stats C he advised me that he was burning 13-14 GPH. When I was still at 10 GPH.
We continued on our flight constantly comparing #'s We ran approx. the same prop speed and pwr settings as stated.
However after around 2:45 in cruise and 10 minutes from fuel stop C the other RV-10 stated that he had only 30 minutes of fuel left C when I had 3 hrs. left.
We did find out that the other tank might have had a fuel leak in it as well. This is what he told me I could no validate that C just interesting C I thought.
So just my observation. I could clearly pull away from a much more powerful LS-2 powered RV-10 in climb and in cruise. And all the while burning far less gas.
Again none of this was pre planned and at all scientific. Just 2 RV-10'S having fun and heading in the same direction on a beautiful day.
I don't know at what speed he would have been able to keep up and I don't know how accurate his fuel burn #'s were C I know mine are close to spot on!!
Just thought I would share this info with those who may be on the fence about pwr. plant choice.
I know I could not be more pleased with my engine choice!
Thane States
#40337
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0123456789
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thane
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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This individual was a guy who camped next to us. I never asked what kit he used, PSRU, or prop. Again I never thjought we would be running together that day.
The real reason ha tagged along was due to the fact that I had XM, WX. He had Blue Mountain and did not have that capability.
Interesting that the BPE seems to have gone up in price, I paid around $44 K. for mine 2 yrs ago.
Still when I get in and put my Family in the airplane, it was worth every penny.
I also have fine tunned my restrictors, and can run LOP within around 15 degrees. Runs realy smooth. I love it.
At LOP 55% I get around 155 kts TAS.
Thane
[quote] ---
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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Yikes, an alternative engine, Blue Mountain Avionics? Were his seats cushions made out of broken glass? That is asking for challenges.
I recall my BPA was also around $44 or so and I had the FF Cold Induction and a few other goodies. You may want to double check with them.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thane States
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:07 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2
This individual was a guy who camped next to us. I never asked what kit he used, PSRU, or prop. Again I never thjought we would be running together that day.
The real reason ha tagged along was due to the fact that I had XM, WX. He had Blue Mountain and did not have that capability.
Interesting that the BPE seems to have gone up in price, I paid around $44 K. for mine 2 yrs ago.
Still when I get in and put my Family in the airplane, it was worth every penny.
I also have fine tunned my restrictors, and can run LOP within around 15 degrees. Runs realy smooth. I love it.
At LOP 55% I get around 155 kts TAS.
Thane
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: Danny Riggs (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2
What brand of PSRU did your friend have? Type of prop? Prop choice can also make a huge difference. Pretty hard to beat a Barrett Precision engine. i just wish I had the $52k they quoted me at Oshkosh!
From: rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:35:00 -0500
Subject: RE: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2
Thanks Thane. I’m a big proponent of auto conversions, although I also went with a Barrett engine, but we need more data to understand the true value of the auto conversions. Any reports like this really help.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thane States
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 9:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2
Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot, but rather offer some very basic info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto conversions, vs. standard power plants.
FACTS:
My RV-10 :was loaded with full fuel, 60 gallons.
3, pax. and camping gear.
I have the BPE IO-540; 288 h.p. CAI. Hartzell blended 2 blade prop.
James plenum and holy cowl, and main wheel pants.
Other RV-10 : loaded with 50 gallons of fuel, due to fuel leak.
2 pax. and camping gear, lots of tools.
LS-2; 350 h.p. 3 blade prop, not sure which one.
We took off in loose formation climbing up to 11,500
After my initial pwr. reduction to 25" 2500 rpm, I was told by the other RV-10 that I was pulling away from him, so I pulled the pwr back to around 23" and he said he was able to keep up.
Later in cruise, I was again asked to pull back due to pulling away from him.
I finally ran at 55% pwr LOP. 10 GPH. And he was comfortable and kept up fine.
However, After we compared stats, he advised me that he was burning 13-14 GPH. When I was still at 10 GPH.
We continued on our flight constantly comparing #'s We ran approx. the same prop speed and pwr settings as stated.
However after around 2:45 in cruise and 10 minutes from fuel stop, the other RV-10 stated that he had only 30 minutes of fuel left, when I had 3 hrs. left.
We did find out that the other tank might have had a fuel leak in it as well. This is what he told me I could no validate that, just interesting, I thought.
So just my observation. I could clearly pull away from a much more powerful LS-2 powered RV-10 in climb and in cruise. And all the while burning far less gas.
Again none of this was pre planned and at all scientific. Just 2 RV-10'S having fun and heading in the same direction on a beautiful day.
I don't know at what speed he would have been able to keep up and I don't know how accurate his fuel burn #'s were, I know mine are close to spot on!!
Just thought I would share this info with those who may be on the fence about pwr. plant choice.
I know I could not be more pleased with my engine choice!
Thane States
#40337
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listronics.com |
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[quote][b]
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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I am getting pretty close to Thanes number's with mine as well with about a 8 to 9 GPH fuel consumption. I have not tuned my injectors yet but I have a pretty good idea which ones need to be swapped and they are pretty darn close, I may not need to buy any to make it happen, just need more flight data to work with to make the final plan to get them in the right spots. BTW my Barretts IO-540 was rated at 263 HP Verticle induction with go fast chrome valve covers...43K about two years ago....never regretted the choice. Runs great.
Rick S.
N246RS
---
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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Rick what altitude are you at while running LOP? I can run fine (at) 4500'
but have significant miss (at) 8500'
Deems
Rick Sked wrote:
[quote]
I am getting pretty close to Thanes number's with mine as well with
about a 8 to 9 GPH fuel consumption. I have not tuned my injectors yet
but I have a pretty good idea which ones need to be swapped and they
are pretty darn close, I may not need to buy any to make it happen,
just need more flight data to work with to make the final plan to get
them in the right spots. BTW my Barretts IO-540 was rated at 263 HP
Verticle induction with go fast chrome valve covers...43K about two
years ago....never regretted the choice. Runs great.
Rick S.
N246RS
---
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Hiya Deems,
I have not downloaded the data card but IIRCC, coming back from LOE we were running at 12,500, MP was at 19.5 (WOT) with 2200 on the tach. Slowly started to lean it out...got a little rough as I leaned it but the but EGT's stayed pretty close about a 40 degree variation as it went LOP. The roughness smoothed but the engine definetly sounded different as Tim had described previously, it took a little getting used to. The fuel flow dropped way down from 10.5 between ROP and LOP to 8.5 steady and a 3-5 kt speed drop. It took some adjustments during the flight, never really just "stayed there". The Trutak RV-10 AP took all the commands from the 480 and worked like a champ which allowed me to work the radio and fiddle with the LOP after a discussion with another builder at LOE about how he ran his engine. Power was at 55%, 155 TAS, 23kt crosswind from the SW acrossed the nose, we had a GS of about 160 to 165 kts according the 480, some of that may have been sideways  Heading to LOE I burned 36 gals going for 2.9 hours and 30 gals coming back for 3.4 hours so saved some gas money for sure. Heading to LOE was pretty much the same except for a slight quarterly tailwind. 11,500, 55% 30-40 ROP, 11 GPH 165 IAS, TAS was about the same but a GS of about 170kts. Gotta love this though, North Las Vegas to El Paso...just under three hours for two people $140...A taxi to my house from the airport is $45 with tip..now I just drive to the hangar and park inside until I get back...
Rick S.
N246RS
---
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Re: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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As I'm sure you know, cruise speed is rather insensitive to power, and very sensitive to airframe drag. OTOH, climb rate is rather sensitive to power (especially at typical climb speeds where drag is less).
Did you get any head to head (same IAS, same power settings) comparisons of climb rate?
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bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Another point to make is that the cruise speed of the RV-10 is fairly sensitive to CG.
Bob
N442PM (flying)
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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| Quote: | Just thought I would post some comparisons of a flight from Oshkosh this year.
I am not trying to stir up the pot, but rather offer some very basic info I got when I flew with another RV-10 this year.
As you all know there is a huge debate about the merits of auto conversions, vs. standard power plants.
FACTS: |
Since you ARE stirring up the pot, which primer did you use?
John
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thane
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Ah, primer wars, I love it. S.W wash, that ugly green stuff!!
Thane
---
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: BPE IO-540, VS LS-2 |
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Primer? Who needs primer?
Aridzona refugee
do not archive
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:13 AM, Thane States <thane2(at)comporium.net> wrote:
[quote]
Ah, primer wars, I love it. S.W wash, that ugly green stuff!!
Thane
---
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