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What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

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WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

So I currently have a 66" GSC that I have decided I should just replace over trying to adjust.  Yes, i will look for any reason to upgrade.  I have decided I want to go with an Ivoprop ground adjustable.  I was planning on a 68" 3 blade ultralight, however when I called Ivo and talked to a salesman he suggested a 72" 2 blade medium based on the 3:1 gearbox I have.  So here are the questions;



Anyone have a 582 with a 3:1 gearbox?  What prop are you running?



Anyone have a 72" prop on a KF mod 1, 2, 3 and how is your ground clearance?



According to my measurements which are a little fuzzy due to the plane being on a trailer gives me about 17" of ground clearance in a level attitude, so a 72" should give me about 14" clearance.  I don't see any reason this should be an issue and it sounds well within limits.  Am I missing anything?



The salesman was talking about the 72" 2 blade having about 20# more thrust then the 68" 3 blade and that sounds good to me.  Thanks for the information guys.



James

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

At 05:54 PM 10/13/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Anyone have a 582 with a 3:1 gearbox?  What prop are you running?


	


70" Warp 3-blade.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Pat Reilly

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

James, I bought my FWF 582 with a 72" Warp Drive prop. It had flown on a model 3 for 100 hrs. I converted to a Lowell Fitt bush gear so now I have at least 4" more ground clearance. But, the 72" blade evidently had no ground clearance problem on the stock KF model 3 gear previous to my purchase.

   

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>

 

So I currently have a 66" GSC that I have decided I should just replace over trying to adjust.  Yes, i will look for any reason to upgrade.  I have decided I want to go with an Ivoprop ground adjustable.  I was planning on a 68" 3 blade ultralight, however when I called Ivo and talked to a salesman he suggested a 72" 2 blade medium based on the 3:1 gearbox I have.  So here are the questions;

 

Anyone have a 582 with a 3:1 gearbox?  What prop are you running?



Anyone have a 72" prop on a KF mod 1, 2, 3 and how is your ground clearance?



According to my measurements which are a little fuzzy due to the plane being on a trailer gives me about 17" of ground clearance in a level attitude, so a 72" should give me about 14" clearance.  I don't see any reason this should be an issue and it sounds well within limits.  Am I missing anything?

 

The salesman was talking about the 72" 2 blade having about 20# more thrust then the 68" 3 blade and that sounds good to me.  Thanks for the information guys.



James



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

 The ink is still drying on my new certificate





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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

IVO does not like to mix 3 bladed props with  3 to 1  gearbox due to harmonic issues.   I run 3 blade warp on my 3 to 1 box with no issues. I have run other 3 blades props as well with no issues yet.  GSC  68: a good working prop.



IVO medium you will only be able to run 2 blades but they work good and sound good.  



Call  Bob Robertson today  1-866-418-4164 toll free.  HE had a demo 72 " 2 blade IVO Medium there.  Not sure if he still has  but it might be priced right if he still does.



I have used about 10 different props on the same engine combo that you have and they all have their attribute and all perform with a few % of each other. 



I have a 70 or 72 " in flight adjustable GSC hub with WARP blades with SS  leading edges here .  1400$   (  brand new is well over 2k$ ) this one has new blades.

_________________
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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

I have about 40 hrs on mine with 3:1 gears and the IVO 72" 3 blade ultralight IFA with NO issues.  I played around going back and forth between 2.62:1 and 3:1 gears and have decided to stick with the 3:1 on floats.  I put the SS tape between the hub blades to check for movement issues, but so far, none have been detected.  I think the big issues were with the older blades that had the aluminum inserts in the blades.  The hub would tighten against the aluminum inserts and would not properly clamp the blades.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:25 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

At 03:45 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have a 70 or 72 " in flight adjustable GSC hub with WARP blades 

with SS  leading edges here .  1400$   (  brand new is well over 2k$ 

) this one has new blades.


	


Dave,

         What is the weight of this system? Do you have more information on it?



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

I ran a 3 blade IVO on my first Avid which had a 3-1 gearbox with no problems.   I think you are supposed to have the crosshatch pattern on the hub to better grip the blades.  If you have the aluminum inserts C the hub should be slightly counterbored where the inserts are so the hub grips the body of the blades.   That's what I remember reading on the IVO site C and I had no problems with the prop.  Take care C  Jim Chuk

[quote] Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

 From: akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com

 Date: Wed C 14 Oct 2009 10:24:22 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 I have about 40 hrs on mine with 3:1 gears and the IVO 72" 3 blade ultralight IFA with NO issues. I played around going back and forth between 2.62:1 and 3:1 gears and have decided to stick with the 3:1 on floats. I put the SS tape between the hub blades to check for movement issues C but so far C none have been detected. I think the big issues were with the older blades that had the aluminum inserts in the blades. The hub would tighten against the aluminum inserts and would not properly clamp the blades.

 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV 

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

 hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267935#267935

 > 

 		 	   		  Hotmail: Free C trusted aect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

Not sure exactly. 

I could weigh  this week if you like ,  just remind me.



Dave



http://www.ultralightprops.com/gta_inflight_adjustable_props/adjustprops.htm



 	  Guy Buchanan wrote: 	
		  At 03:45 AM 10/14/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have a 70 or 72 " in flight adjustable GSC hub with WARP blades 

with SS  leading edges here .  1400$   (  brand new is well over 2k$ 

) this one has new blades.



	


Dave,

         What is the weight of this system? Do you have more information on it?



Thanks,

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

Hey Dave, speaking of "remind me", are you still interested in those brake components??

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

Dave;



I'm interested in that GSC IFA prop.  I've e.mailed you off list.



Cheers

Ken

_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

Here is what IVOProp told me about 3 blades and 3:1 trannys;



Rotax 503, 532, 582, 583, 618 with 3:1, 3.47:1, 4:1 gear

ratios or other similar engines with high reduction ratios.

Recommendation is the meDium propeller with 5.5 inch diameter

hub. We can no longer recommend the Ultriaght model propeller

because of harmonics associated with these higher ratios

causing blades to move in the 4 inch diameter hub in the

direction of rotation indicated by the motion detector

tape that cannot be stopped with the torque value.

We no longer give refund or credit for undamaged

parts with Ultralight model on these combinations.



So my next question is based on the fact that I do not have my head wrapped around prop dynamics.  What would be better, a 3 blade ultralight prop or a 2 blade medium?  Based on what I have heard I could probably run 70-72" on either setup with difference being 2 thick blades or 3 thin.  Anyone have some science or math they can throw at this question?

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

I did a science project on my brothers kitfox II with 2:62-1 gears.  WE had my 72: IVO IFA ultralight prop on it, and for grins and giggles one day I pulled one of the blades and went 2 blade with it (I was on floats).  Dont know what I was thinking, but I just did it.....  With the IFA I was able to dial the prop in for max TO RPM then bump in more pitch to keep the EGTs under control in flight... IT SUCKED with the 2 blade.  Take off run was about 3000' and it took me the other 3000' of lake to get high enough to turn down wind so I could land.  I got back on the water, changed my pants and put the other blade back on and by golly we had an airplane again not a "fly in ground effect" worthless airboat.



Just my .02 on a personal experience.



FWIW, I am planning on trying out an IVO medium Ground Adjust to see if I get more thrust than the ultralight blades.

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

For general reference.  It is commonly accepted that the longer the prop and the slower you can turn it the more efficient it is.  The fewer  blades are moe efficient than more, ie. Two blades are more efficient than three blades and one blade (They used to run those with a counter weight to balance) is more efficient than two.



I run  a 72 inch two blade warp prop on a 503  50 horse power with a 3:1 gear reduction.  I used to have a 68 inch three blade GSC.  My impression is the 2 blade climbs better but is not as smooth as the 3 blade.  If I had a 582 I would run a three blade prop.  That seems to be the prop of choice for Kitfoxes with two strokes.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

Lenny, am I to understand that you removed one blade from a three- 

bladed prop? And then ran the engine with 2 blades? WAAAAY out-of- 

balance? That's what it sounds like to me. Or is this a prop that  

allows you to do this. Admittedly I'm out of my league when it comes  

to other than a fixed-pitch prop, but this sounds like a recipe for  

engine shake, rattle and roll. : )

(Bill Haley, are you listening?)



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

On Oct 18, 2009, at 6:35 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I did a science project on my brothers kitfox II with 2:62-1  

 gears.  WE had my 72: IVO IFA ultralight prop on it, and for grins  

 and giggles one day I pulled one of the blades and went 2 blade  

 with it (I was on floats).  Dont know what I was thinking, but I  

 just did it.....  With the IFA I was able to dial the prop in for  

 max TO RPM then bump in more pitch to keep the EGTs under control  

 in flight... IT SUCKED with the 2 blade.  Take off run was about  

 3000' and it took me the other 3000' of lake to get high enough to  

 turn down wind so I could land.  I got back on the water, changed  

 my pants and put the other blade back on and by golly we had an  

 airplane again not a "fly in ground effect" worthless airboat.



 Just my .02 on a personal experience.



 FWIW, I am planning on trying out an IVO medium Ground Adjust to  

 see if I get more thrust than the ultralight blades.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 68450#268450

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: Re: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

 	  Lynn Matteson wrote: 	
		  Lenny, am I to understand that you removed one blade from a three- 

bladed prop? And then ran the engine with 2 blades? WAAAAY out-of- 

balance? That's what it sounds like to me. Or is this a prop that  

allows you to do this. Admittedly I'm out of my league when it comes  

to other than a fixed-pitch prop, but this sounds like a recipe for  

engine shake, rattle and roll. : )

(Bill Haley, are you listening?)



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

	




I can see where you may be confused by my statement.  With the IVO prop, you can pull one blade, insert the blade blocks and re-configure to a two blade, properly opposed and balanced.  I will do some pretty dumb sh!t but I am not dumb enough to try whacking a blade off a normal 3 blade and then try to fly on just two.  I can do some drinking, but your not gonna ever see me drunk enough to put quarters in for that ride!

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:16 am Post subject: What's your prop size/ prop clearance?

WHEW...THAT'S a relief! For a while there I thought we were gonna  

have to start taking nominations for a new "hander outer of humorless  

darwin awards" in case you went over the edge and did something  

REALLY dumb. : )



*That* kind of ride might even be in the silver dollar category.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs

Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying

do not archive



On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:39 AM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Lynn Matteson wrote:

> Lenny, am I to understand that you removed one blade from a three-

> bladed prop? And then ran the engine with 2 blades? WAAAAY out-of-

> balance? That's what it sounds like to me. Or is this a prop that

> allows you to do this. Admittedly I'm out of my league when it comes

> to other than a fixed-pitch prop, but this sounds like a recipe for

> engine shake, rattle and roll. : )

> (Bill Haley, are you listening?)

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs

> Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go

> Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

> Electroair direct-fire ignition system

> Rotec TBI-40 injection

> Status: flying

>

 I can see where you may be confused by my statement.  With the IVO  

 prop, you can pull one blade, insert the blade blocks and re- 

 configure to a two blade, properly opposed and balanced.  I will do  

 some pretty dumb sh!t but I am not dumb enough to try whacking a  

 blade off a normal 3 blade and then try to fly on just two.  I can  

 do some drinking, but your not gonna ever see me drunk enough to  

 put quarters in for that ride!



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry aka SNAKE

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1450

 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 68508#268508

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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