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kelmonroe(at)COMCAST.NET
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 Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: new operating limitations |
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I have just purchased a CJ with 10 year old operating limitations. I want to get the new limitation and go to the FAA with them to get the home base moved and a new airworthy certificate. Can some one lead me to these? Thanks Kelley
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: new operating limitations |
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First you will need the new, hard copy registration showing the new, registered owner. Next, complete the FAA Form 8130-6 which you can download. Make a copy of the new registration. Then send the copy of the new registration, your old Special Airworthiness Certificate, a copy of your engine and airplane log books showing the current annual condition inspection sign-offs and an annual Schedule of Events (Program letter) and mail it to your local FSDO telling them you recently purchased this aircraft and would like to have issued the new Special Airworthiness Certificate and new Operating Limitations.
It might be a good idea to call the local FSDO first and talk with an Inspector who is familiar with issuing new OL's and Special Airworthiness Certificates for Experimental Exhibition Group III, under 800 horsepower airplanes.
Call me if you need help.
Dennis
334-285-2141
334-546-8182 (mobile)
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k7wx(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: new operating limitations |
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Kelly,
Just went through this process with our local FSDO, culminating with
an inspection at my hanger last Thursday. The steps are just as Dennis
outlined.
I would emphasize that you need to contact your local FSDO early and
work with them. There have been some changes in the limitations
they'll assign compared to what they were doing several years ago, so
expect your new limitations to be different. Our FSDO assigns
airworthiness inspectors to individual aircraft, so there has always
one person that I have been working with. Overall, a very pleasant
process and I found my inspector to be quite helpful.
You may also want to write to Oklahoma City and ask to have copies of
everything that they have on your aircraft. There is a minimal fee for
this and it is a routine practice. This may allow you some additional
insights into your purchase.
Best,
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:51 AM, Kelley Monroe wrote:
| Quote: | I have just purchased a CJ with 10 year old operating limitations.
I want to get the new limitation and go to the FAA with them to get
the home base moved and a new airworthy certificate. Can some one
lead me to these? Thanks Kelley
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: new operating limitations |
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Concur with Dennis in every way.
Just my 2 cents:
I just went through this myself on a UTVA-66. One thing I learned was
to try to know more than the FAA about the subject. Not in a "know it
all" attempt,..... but so that when they added NEW material to the old
Operating Limitations, I could nicely ask them: "Sir, isn't it wrong to
add more to the Operating Limitations than were on the older existing
ones?" By the way ... They are NOT supposed to do that!
What they had done was to change the WORDING of the new Operating
Limitations to put them in line with a new FAA directive that requires
them to be listed in a different order. They knew all about that, but
required me to submit to THEM the material that allows the removal of
the 300 mile limitation.
It is very clear that a new aircraft inspection is NOT required.
However, some FSDO's seem to want to do that. I wouldn't make an issue
out of that, but you could if you really wanted to. That aside, the new
limitations that they issue should only be REWORDED and in NO WAY MORE
RESTRICTIVE! This is important to understand, because if you ACCEPT new
limitations that have wording that ADDS further restrictions, it is much
harder to get them off later. MUCH harder.
As an example, my FSDO added wording that said: "NO NIGHT FLYING",
instead of "NO NIGHT FLYING UNLESS PROPERLY EQUIPPED".
Along with about four other little "pen and ink" errors that could have
really added up to a disaster for me had I not caught them! Compare the
old Op-Limits to the NEW Op-Limits... Word for word. CAREFULLY. If
they have ADDED new limitations, you must REFUSE to accept them.
Politely of course. Also make darn sure that the DATE on the Operating
Limitations and your Special Airworthiness Certificate MATCH~! Someone
else posted a notice on that earlier and it happened to me as well.
Mark
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k7wx(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: new operating limitations |
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Kelly,
Mark brings up an excellent point. Look carefully at the operating
limitations paperwork.
After being assigned an aviation safety inspector, I was sent an
Application for Airworthiness Certificate and a draft of my proposed
Phase 2 operating limitations (Group III - Warbirds, Vintage, Replica
and Unique Aircraft). I went over the draft document with a local CJ
owner who is also a working airline captain. This was an obvious cut
and paste exercise. There were duplicate paragraphs, numerous typos
and some paragraphs had wording that appeared to supersede others. I
put together a detailed list of proposed changes (respectfully worded)
and FAX'd them back to my guy at the local FSDO.
When the inspector came out to the hanger, he brought a new set of
revised operating limitations. The majority of the changes I had asked
for had been incorporated. It was certainly not more restrictive. A
couple of paragraphs that I had asked to be removed stayed, but he
explained that these were required for warbirds under the area of
exhibition and air racing by a FAA order. The one paragraph that will
likely get your attention, and remain no matter what you ask for, is
the following:
"Flights to airports other than an alternate airport and the airport
where the aircraft is based are allowed for maintenance of the
aircraft. (Maintenance, as defined in § 1.1, is the reference for the
purpose of these flights) Before the flight, the operator must notify
and receive permission from the geographically responsible FSDO where
the maintenance will take place, and notify the FSDO with the
geographic responsibility where the aircraft is based of the intended
maintenance flight. The maintenance performed in connection with the
flight must be recorded in the aircraft records in accordance with
part 43."
I was told that this is now required by a FAA order. So, when I fly my
CJ to another local airport here in the Phoenix metropolitan area for
its upcoming annual, I have to get permission from the local FSDO,
even though it's only 35 miles away. Go figure.
Other items, like the 300 NM rule were taken out. They still require a
Program Letter for any fly-ins, static displays, air shows, etc. I
thought that the rest of the limitations were all pretty reasonable.
He spent the rest of his time going through my logbooks and looking to
make sure that everything that all the required placards were in place.
Here in central Arizona there are a lot of warbirds and our local FSDO
seems to do a good job. I thought that the person assigned to me
handled things professionally and gave me every consideration
possible. Nothing confrontational, nothing weird, no apparent hidden
agendas.
Best,
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:51 AM, Kelley Monroe wrote:
| Quote: | I have just purchased a CJ with 10 year old operating limitations.
I want to get the new limitation and go to the FAA with them to get
the home base moved and a new airworthy certificate. Can some one
lead me to these? Thanks Kelley
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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