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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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I just changed my Continental IO240 alternator for a B and C 30 amp. After I had the elastomeric coupler fail with about 500 hrs on engine. About $450 for a rebuilt coupler if you were wondering. I like the new alternator so far. I believe I can remove it without removing the engine. Unlike stock. Also it is built in such a way that I believe the 500 hour service bulletin on checking the coupler can be accomplished without removing the alternator at all. There is nut on the back that rotates with the rotation of alternator.
Now for a question: Does anyone know the station of the alternator for weight and balance purposes. The new alternator is about 6 pounds lighter. I could just weigh the airplane again if I scales readily available. And if I must I will remove the cowl again, level the plane, plumb bob the datum, plumb bob the alternator and measure myself. But if anyone already has the answer it could save me a little effort.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
[quote][b]
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupling? What type of coupling does the new alternator use?
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593 Now...three years later...here we go again. If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in the coupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different alternator.
Travis 
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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It uses the same coupler but I hope the lighter weight and lower amperage alternator will be less likely to fry it. In my research I have found that there is an older style coupler that was used in the o200 for years. It will work but... If it were to fail or the alternator seized there are potentially bits of metal in the engine case. Therefore the "wisdom" is if/when the elastomer fails-no bits of metal. The cost to buy the older style coupler was similar to a rebuild of the elastomeric one so that is what I did. I changed alternators because: I believe it can be removed without pulling the engine and it is over 6 pounds lighter. Added benefit that I did not realize is that the nut on the back can be used to check the torque slippage of the coupler per the service bulletin for 500 hr checks. Although my first one did not quite make it to 500 hrs.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 10/26/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 9:37 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net (flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net)>
Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupling? What type of coupling does the new alternator use?
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593 Now...three years later...here we go again. If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in the coupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different alternator.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewf="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target=_blank>http:/sp; -->
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[quote][b]
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ruebd(at)skymail.csus.edu
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Maxwell:
What is the symptom or mode of failure of this coupling?
Duane, Kitfox Safari 240
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
It uses the same coupler but I hope the lighter weight and lower amperage alternator will be less likely to fry it. In my research I have found that there is an older style coupler that was used in the o200 for years. It will work but... If it were to fail or the alternator seized there are potentially bits of metal in the engine case. Therefore the "wisdom" is if/when the elastomer fails-no bits of metal. The cost to buy the older style coupler was similar to a rebuild of the elastomeric one so that is what I did. I changed alternators because: I believe it can be removed without pulling the engine and it is over 6 pounds lighter. Added benefit that I did not realize is that the nut on the back can be used to check the torque slippage of the coupler per the service bulletin for 500 hr checks. Although my first one did not quite make it to 500 hrs.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 10/26/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 9:37 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupling? What type of coupling does the new alternator use?
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593 Now...three years later...here we go again. If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in the coupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different alternator.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewf="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target=_blank>http:/sp; -->
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Duane,
On my two failures, it showed up in flight and I got a low voltage warning. When both of mine failed, it was like the alternator was no longer connected to the engine. Inspection on the ground reveals that if you attempt to move the alternators internal cooling fan, it would free-spin (thus the alternator is turning). Moving the propeller does not turn the alternator.
The coupling is like a clutch. When it fails, it basically (or mechanically) separates the alternator from the drive gear. It's function is to protect the engine. If the alternator bearings, etc failed and it locked up, the coupling will fail and thus will not stop the engine from running! Click on my old thread (link is above). At the bottom I have several pictures that show the unit and the failure is easy to spot.
Travis
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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The coupler is a metal "cup" with some sort of "elastomer" pressed into it. When it fails the elastomer slips inside the cup and the alternator does not spin. The 500 hour service bulletin requires, I think, no slippage at 100 inch pounds. I think Danny Melnick actually had the elastomer break apart on his but I am not certain. Mine did not break up.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Tue, 10/27/09, Rueb, Duane <ruebd(at)skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Rueb, Duane <ruebd(at)skymail.csus.edu>
Subject: RE: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
To: "'kitfox-list(at)matronics.com'" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
Maxwell:
What is the symptom or mode of failure of this coupling?
Duane, Kitfox Safari 240
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W Duke
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 4:45 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
It uses the same coupler but I hope the lighter weight and lower amperage alternator will be less likely to fry it. In my research I have found that there is an older style coupler that was used in the o200 for years. It will work but... If it were to fail or the alternator seized there are potentially bits of metal in the engine case. Therefore the "wisdom" is if/when the elastomer fails-no bits of metal. The cost to buy the older style coupler was similar to a rebuild of the elastomeric one so that is what I did. I changed alternators because: I believe it can be removed without pulling the engine and it is over 6 pounds lighter. Added benefit that I did not realize is that the nut on the back can be used to check the torque slippage of the coupler per the service bulletin for 500 hr checks. Although my first one did not quite make it to 500 hrs.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Mon, 10/26/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 9:37 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Maxwell,
Did you change to the lighter weight alternator because of the failed coupling? What type of coupling does the new alternator use?
I found the thread I started when my coupler failed in Nov 06. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593 Now...three years later...here we go again. If a new style alternator would provide an improvement in the coupling...I would certainly be interested in changing to a different alternator.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewf="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target=_blank>http:/sp; -->
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
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[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Maxwell,
Where are you ordering your coupling? The best price I've found so far on a rebuilt unit is $525.
Travis
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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I don't have the receipt in front of me and I talked to several places but I think it was www.qualityaircraftaccessories.com/ . The price was just under 500 if they rebuilt mine and returned. Just over 500 if they went ahead and sent one they already had.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
--- On Sat, 10/31/09, FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 4:15 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net (flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net)>
Maxwell,
Where are you ordering your coupling? The best price I've found so far on a rebuilt unit is $525.
Travis
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=270= the Contribution link below to find out more about
w.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/cont -Matt Dralle, List = --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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[quote][b]
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Quality Aircraft sent me a quote of $550. They get their rebuilt couplings from Drake Air (same company I purchased my "failed unit" from, 254 hours ago). I guess I will be ordering tomorrow. ...I feel so used!  I am still perplexed how such a simple part cost so much. The current NEW pricing from TCM is $1,997.97.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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vft(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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I bought the rebuilt one I changed out in N24ZM from Drakes. Nice folks. I remember being shocked at the then $600 cost until they told me what a new one went for. Seeing as the one in N24ZM didn't make the 500 hr inspection I did talk to TCM about warranty. The reply I got was that the failure was considered "normal". After a hung up the phone it was a few days before the pain wore off and I could sit again.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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I decided to go ahead and order today. Purchased from aeroinstock.com for $525. Did you order a new alternator and starter gasket? I found that removing the starter made it easier to remove and install the alternator. If I remember correctly...there is one of the nuts that is almost impossible to get a wrench on...never did torque that one! 
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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Painful when you buy almost the exact same part from NAPA Aviation Supply for 60.00 and it has a full year warranty no questions.... hmmmmm
PS
send me more photos of your Rocket~
Stunning
Dave
In a message dated 11/2/2009 10:14:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, vft(at)aol.com writes:
[quote]I bought the rebuilt one I changed out in N24ZM from Drakes. Nice folks. I remember being shocked at the then $600 cost until they told me what a new one went for. Seeing as the one in N24ZM didn't make the 500 hr inspection I did talk to TCM about warranty. The reply I got was that the failure was considered "normal". After a hung up the phone it was a few days before the pain wore off and I could sit again.
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: Re: IO240 alternator swap and coupler failure |
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????? Is there really such a part? I would be willing to take a look at it. ...would even give it a try (after a CLOSE inspection!).
Travis
| Aerobatics(at)aol.com wrote: | Painful when you buy almost the exact same part from NAPA Aviation Supply for 60.00 and it has a full year warranty no questions.... hmmmmm
-- |
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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