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fuselage

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lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: fuselage

I am working on my moose fuselage.I beefed up the  tail cone with 8 pieces of 3/4 angle were the skin meets the corner  wraps.I  thinking of other areas that need extra strength ,one guy used a  second V brace under the dash mid fire wall and back to door post??? any  ideas?

  

                                                  Bill

                                                 Moose  244

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dfultz7(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: fuselage

Bill ,, I am not an engineer but I wonder what he  was trying to accomplish by running the V brace from firewall back to door post  on the Taildragger plane the engine is hanging on the V brace from the top in  tension??? I would just seem like extra weight to me maybe someone can shed  some light on this. Dale Fultz

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lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: fuselage

Hi Dale 

  

    The boys from  Orillia aviation  looked over there moose and thought that the fire wall back to the post needed  that support?? They also beefed up the inside door post to 063.These guys work  on Beavers all the time and they compare the both planes all the time,Is it  needed ????

  

                                   Bill

 [quote]   ---

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ScottA

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Park City, UT

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: fuselage

Hi Bill,  

   

I would have to see what and where they tied the second V brace into?  You said mid firewall so I assume not the same place as the top V brace.  I could see this helping if the second brace was in tied into the cross channel that runs between the two top engine mounts (or an added channel).  The firewall itself is too flimsy to attach much stuff too (I think the v stiffener channels do there job, except you can’t mount anything to or through them) so I add a second horizontal channel about 1/3 up from the bottom on the inside (bottom oil tank attach points go through this channel on mine).  We also added a vertical channel on the front side right up the center from the bottom to the top cross channel.  We added a vertical channel on the inside at the top which goes up behind the MAM V brace support angle.  We changed the MAM V brace support angle to steel with side gussets (Some used the aluminum angle but added gussets).   

   

We did change our inner door posts to .063, we also changed the outer door post skin but I can not remember the thickness – we changed to the seaplane style doors so with the added lower “wedge” being all one piece it really stiffened this area up.  

   

The top of the dash is too flimsy - some have added a skin doubler on the top of the dash where it meets the firewall.  Others have replaced the entire top dash skin with thicker aluminum.  I added three channels up under the dash skin from the firewall back to the top of the instrument panel.  One in the center (the V brace goes through this) and one at each crease in the dash skin on the sides (where the instrument panel makes the angle change).    

   

My fast build firewall is not flat.  The top leans forward about 1/8 of an inch.  I discovered this because I removed the firewall and laid it flat to make the jig for my engine mount.  I then made my mount with all five attach point on the same plane.  So when I installed the engine mount and tightened all of the mount bolts it pushed the top center of the firewall back.  There was a loud tin can “bang”.  The dash had buckled as the top of the firewall was forced back by the center engine mount.  Ended up moving the top center engine mount hole up to relieve this pressure – that meant remaking the V brace mount as the hole in it was too low now also (with the firewall leaning forward that effectively lowers the top hole a little).  

   

I remade the V – brace out of large thicker tube also – I wanted to be able to grab it and not worry about bending it.  

   

We beefed up the tail cone similar to what you did but we put V hat channel down center of the bottom corner wraps.  One Moose I know of has wrinkles in all of these corner wraps.  It was most likely due to a hard landing on floats so not sure if that was necessary or not.  

   

We added a wrap or doubler over the cargo door sill – if you use it much it will get beat up dragging stuff in and out.  We used 2024 for this and a lot of other additions due to fewer tendencies to dent.  

   

Some have added a doubler inside the fuselage corner wrap that is right behind the gear leg – then installed the drag brace through it.  I made the drag brace a little longer.  

   

We stiffened the top of the doors with internal channels but this was only because of the seaplane door hinge on the top.  

   

MAM’s new Moose demonstrator (they bought C-GATR it is on my completions page of website) has some sort of doublers in front of the rear float attach brackets.  I have only seen it in a picture so not sure exactly what they did.  Murphy did not build this Moose they purchased after it was already done so it is NOT a MAM mode that we have not heard about.  They just finished flying the time off of it so it will most likely be at Arlington and Oshkosh for sure.  No indication on their web about it yet but Stéphane said okay to tell – Ted knows more about it as he has talked with Ryan Mowat who flew the time off (along with Doug from MAM) they couldn’t get it done in time for Sun n Fun.   

   

Oh, just remembered - we replaced the inner rear door post skin strips with .063 also after installing the fuel lines down the posts.  The .063 continues across the bottom of the rear spar carry through.    

   

This is unrelated to fuselage beef up but it really helps to add inspection holes on the bottom of the fuselage right behind the firewall, particularly if you have a bunch of stuff going through down there (we have air lines along with fuel lines)  

   

Sorry so long – can’t think of anything else right now.  

Also I can’t say any of this is “needed” it just looked right to me at the time.  

   

Scott  

Moose 174  

         

  

From: owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-murphymoose-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pollock

 Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:09 AM

 To: murphymoose-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: MurphyMoose-List: fuselage  

  

     

Hi Dale   

    

   

    

   The boys from  Orillia aviation looked over there moose and thought that the fire wall back to the post needed that support?? They also beefed up the inside door post to 063.These guys work on Beavers all the time and they compare the both planes all the time,Is it needed ????  

    

   

    

                                 Bill  

  [quote]    

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lbpollock(at)sympatico.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: fuselage

Hi Scott

  

  I took photos of  that underdash V brace  and it goes at the top of the center of  firewall right below the  dash, straight back to door post below dash not tied into cross channel ,I  think there idea was to secure the post in two spots with 4130 tube one at the  top of the cabin and one mid point.They did not like the side skin between the  fire wall to the post to take the stress load?

                   Thanks Dale and Scott for your input.

  

                                       Bill

 [quote]   ---

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