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FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Kolbers,



After several false starts, today I managed to get the engine started.  

Found the problem was that the engine manual listed that the ignition would 

be active with the black wire grounded.  This was not the case.



I tied the tail wheel to the pickup for start up.  With the initial 

propeller setting, the engine topped out at 5,200 rpm .  With free air 

cooling, the CHT topped out at 450 degrees F.  No reading from the EGT, as I 

had mistakenly installed a non functional gauge.  Replaced the EGT gauge 

with a functional dual unit, and took some pitch out of the propeller.  

Started the engine again, and ran it up to 5,300 rpm and leaned out the high 

speed jet so that the EGT read 1,100 degrees F.  CHT temp held at 450 

degrees F.  Backed off to adjust the low speed jet, and the engine quit.  

Checking things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down 

to the collapsed state.  Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something 

had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank.  This was not the case.  I 

banged the intake side of the bulb  with a screw driver handle and it broke 

the seal and reinstalled everything.  Started the engine several times, and 

I could see that the bulb would start to collapse and the engine would quit. 

I gave up for the day.  



I will have to install a bypass to be able to use the squeeze bulb as it is 

much more flaccid than the original one.  Probably will call TNK and get a 

new squeeze bulb sent.



Overall, not a bad day.  The engine is mounted with the original engine 

mounts along with bulk head mounts which were supplied with the engine.  The 

bulk head mounts are very flexible, and so the engine does dance around a 

little more than I expected.  Once the low and high speed jets and 

mechanical idle screw were adjusted, the engine ran much smoother.  There is 

much less engine mass to dampen out the firing impulse, but with the engine 

running over 2,000 rpm things seem to settle down.



Need to redesign my magneto kill switch, and I am going to change and move 

the starter switch to mount on the positive battery terminal.  Moving the 

start switch will reduce some weight and make it much easier to activate as 

it will be closer to the cockpit.



I was worried that the decompression valve would not work well when starting 

with the throttle closed.  It has not been a problem, and the very small 

starter spins the engine over nicely.



A step closer to getting back into the air.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Jack,  

  

      What does the  manufacturer recommend for wot  RPM'S on the mz 34?

       Glad to here you got er goin!

            Ed  Diebel

  In a message dated 10/7/2009 8:49:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Started    the engine again, and ran it up to 5,300 rpm and leaned out the high 

speed    jet so that the EGT read 1,100 degrees F.  CHT temp held at 450    

degrees F.  Backed off to adjust the low speed jet, and the engine    quit 	


  [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Here is the poop sheet on the MZ34.



http://www.compactradialengines.com/mz34.html

Thom in Buffalo

  [quote][b]

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Jack,

  

 I'm the one who suggested that NAPA had a primer bulb.  I  recently installed one on my Kolb FireStar and didn't experience the  collapsing you have, probably because I use a bypass line on my fuel  routing setup.  Still, glad you pointed it out as a potential problem  area.

  

  Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not Archive

  



  In a message dated 10/7/2009 9:49:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Checking    things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down 

to the    collapsed state.  Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something    

had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank.  This was not the    case.  I 

banged the intake side of the bulb  with a screw driver    handle and it broke 

the seal and reinstalled everything.  Started the    engine several times, and 

I could see that the bulb would start to    collapse and the engine would quit. 

I gave up for the day.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

I don't know about Jack's fuel system, but sounds like the  fuel pump is pulling a lot of vacuum to collapse the bulb.

  

 I had one collapse on my Firestar, but it was because some  debris partially plugged the inlet to the bulb.  That was the day I landed  on the Sebring High School foot ball field, Sebring, FL, during the school day  with no brakes installed and only partial power, enough to go down only.   

  

 john h

 mkIII

 Monument Valley, Utah

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:40 am Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Bill,



It, the bulb, was designed for marine use where there is not that much head 

difference between the tank and the engine.  Today, it is going to be an 

inside day because of rain, so I will go to the airport and remove the bulb 

and bring it home.  It is assembled with wire spring clamps on each end of 

the bulb.  I will remove them and pull out the valve assemblies and see if I 

can insert a perforated tube liner between and over the valve assemblies to 

prevent total collapse of the bulb.  This should allow the fuel to pass on 

through even though the liner collapses.  To maintain bulb pumping function 

the aluminum liner tube will be drilled full of holes.  For ultra light 

vehicle use, this fix should be much lighter than the original bulb that 

came with the FireFly, and much simpler than the bulb and bypass system.



So if it works, your suggested bulb will be better than what I had 

originally.  If not I will fall back to the bypass system.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



....................



From: WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 23:32:53 EDT



Jack,

  

I'm the one who suggested that NAPA had a primer bulb.  I recently installed one on my Kolb FireStar and didn't experience the collapsing you have, probably because I use a bypass line on my fuel routing setup.  Still, glad you pointed it out as a potential problem area.

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Jack,



From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. What size battery is it taking to start your new engine?



Scott



 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  Kolbers,



After several false starts, today I managed to get the engine started.  

Found the problem was that the engine manual listed that the ignition would 

be active with the black wire grounded.  This was not the case.



I tied the tail wheel to the pickup for start up.  With the initial 

propeller setting, the engine topped out at 5,200 rpm .  With free air 

cooling, the CHT topped out at 450 degrees F.  No reading from the EGT, as I 

had mistakenly installed a non functional gauge.  Replaced the EGT gauge 

with a functional dual unit, and took some pitch out of the propeller.  

Started the engine again, and ran it up to 5,300 rpm and leaned out the high 

speed jet so that the EGT read 1,100 degrees F.  CHT temp held at 450 

degrees F.  Backed off to adjust the low speed jet, and the engine quit.  

Checking things over, I found the new squeeze bulb from NAPA was sucked down 

to the collapsed state.  Pulled the line out of the tank thinking something 

had plugged the entrance to the tube in the tank.  This was not the case.  I 

banged the intake side of the bulb  with a screw driver handle and it broke 

the seal and reinstalled everything.  Started the engine several times, and 

I could see that the bulb would start to collapse and the engine would quit. 

I gave up for the day.  



I will have to install a bypass to be able to use the squeeze bulb as it is 

much more flaccid than the original one.  Probably will call TNK and get a 

new squeeze bulb sent.



Overall, not a bad day.  The engine is mounted with the original engine 

mounts along with bulk head mounts which were supplied with the engine.  The 

bulk head mounts are very flexible, and so the engine does dance around a 

little more than I expected.  Once the low and high speed jets and 

mechanical idle screw were adjusted, the engine ran much smoother.  There is 

much less engine mass to dampen out the firing impulse, but with the engine 

running over 2,000 rpm things seem to settle down.



Need to redesign my magneto kill switch, and I am going to change and move 

the starter switch to mount on the positive battery terminal.  Moving the 

start switch will reduce some weight and make it much easier to activate as 

it will be closer to the cockpit.



I was worried that the decompression valve would not work well when starting 

with the throttle closed.  It has not been a problem, and the very small 

starter spins the engine over nicely.



A step closer to getting back into the air.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

At 10:02 AM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Jack,



>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly. 

What size battery is it taking to start your new 
	


engine?

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Scott,



I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+.  It is a little 

expensive.  The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4, 

2008.  I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well.  After 52 

flights the battery will not hold a charge well.  I keep a booster on the 

battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.



This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.



How it was mounted can be seen at:



http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up.  I've 

heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your 

battery in after a short time.  Same I told the ones that Batteries 

Plus sell are better.  I have got the foggiest idea which is 

better.  Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is good 

and the other is bad?

jerb

At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 10:02 AM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote:

 >

 >

 >Jack,

 >

 >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your Firefly.

What size battery is it taking to start your new

engine?

 >

Scott,

I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+.  It is a little

expensive.  The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002 to July 4,

2008.  I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well.  After 52

flights the battery will not hold a charge well.  I keep a booster on the

battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.

This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.

How it was mounted can be seen at:

http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html

Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Jerb



I have had real good service with a Schumacher Model SE-1562A battery 

maintainer. I use cheep Wal-Mart and Meijer utility batteries. I get a small 

12 Amp battery and use it to start my 2180cc VW engine (most would consider 

this extreme service). These batteries need to be charged to 90-100% or the 

engine will not start. I keep the battery on the maintainer 365 days a year. 

It comes with a quick connect that gets permanently connected to the 

battery. I normally get three-fours years of service before I spend $25 

large or so for a new battery. I notice even after flying when I connect the 

maintainer it will go to charge for a few minutes to bring it up to full 

charge (there is a short period of low RPM just before shut down where the 

battery discharges a bit). Before I started using the maintainer I would 

have to replace the battery every spring.



I have never used the Harbor Freight float charges on a small battery but I 

have three of these.  I put two on my boat and car in Florida for the summer 

and my farm tractor in Michigan in the winter. I had such good service with 

the Schumacher unit I just had to try the Harbor Freight (HF) units and at 

$5-$10 each it seemed worth a try. It is too soon to really say if I will 

get the same service. I have had the HF float charger on the boat battery 

for four years. After two years the boat battery died but it was 12 years 

old so? This will be the second summer on the new battery. I think it will 

also be three summers on the Florida car battery.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Jerb

KITPLANES had a good article by Bob Fritx on chargers, couple months  

ago. I can maybe find  a copy if you can't get one.

Russ K

do not arfchive



On Oct 30, 2009, at 12:23 AM, jerb wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up.  I've  

 heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your  

 battery in after a short time.  Same I told the ones that Batteries  

 Plus sell are better.  I have got the foggiest idea which is  

 better.  Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is  

 good and the other is bad?

 jerb



 At 03:28 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:

> 

> <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>

>

> At 10:02 AM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote:

> >

> >

> >Jack,

> >

> >>From this post it looks like you now have electric start on your  

> Firefly.

> What size battery is it taking to start your new

> engine?

> >

>

> Scott,

>

> I used an UltraStart-Red battery for starting the Victor 1+.  It  

> is a little

> expensive.  The first one lasted 468 flights from March 30, 2002  

> to July 4,

> 2008.  I am on the second battery, and it is not doing well.   

> After 52

> flights the battery will not hold a charge well.  I keep a booster  

> on the

> battery to keep it fully charged in the hangar.

>

> This battery can be purchased at Aircraft Spruce for about $90.

>

> How it was mounted can be seen at:

>

> http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly142.html

>

> Jack B. Hart FF004

> Winchester, IN

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

At 09:23 PM 10/29/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up.  I've 

heard from some people that ones Harbor Freight sell will do your 

battery in after a short time.  Same I told the ones that Batteries 

Plus sell are better.  I have got the foggiest idea which is 

better.  Any one got any factual info on this subject why one is good 

and the other is bad?


	


Jerb,



I have been using a little charger that was designed for charging sealed 

lead batteries.  I purchased it from All Electronics Corp years ago.  

Currently they do not sell the one I have.  The closest to it can be seen 

at:



http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/BC-212/12VDC-500MA-2-STAGE-CHARGER-FOR-LEAD-ACID-BATTERIES/-/1.html



I believe what you want is a charger that will top off the battery and then 

drop back the charge current to maintain a constant maximum voltage on the 

battery.  This is called the float so that the battery is maintained at peak 

charge but not over charged.  



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

What type of booster are you using to keep your battery up. >>



I have no power in my hangar and have used a solar panel fixed to the roof 

to keep  the battery topped up for a couple of years.



This seemed to have worked even when the weather is poor and I haven`t flown 

for some time. For some reason those two seem to be connected.



I aaume something must be working as when I forgot to plug the panel in the 

battery was flat the next time I need it.



The panel is a real cheapo, about 12" X 18" and is  sold by gadget magazines 

to keep your car battery topped up.



Cheers



Pat

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: FireFly - MZ 34 Start Up

Solar panels work quite well as trickle charges. I've had a little $10, 150ma Harbor Freight panel hooked to my John Deere model 60 for the last few years. That 60 year old tractor starts right up even in sub-zero temps.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

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