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Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

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f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearw
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Last fall I purchased a mdl. three and we are now getting around to trying

to fly it. Among the problems that we have encountered is that in level

flight there is an extreme back pressure on the stick. What would be the

best guess of the group is the problem? I have read that on approach there

should be a natural forward pressure but we find it to be more neutral than

anything. Frank

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Could be a simple rigging problem. Is your elevator approximately neutral when the stick is?  If not, I'd start by adjusting the rod ends for elevator push tube. I had the opposite problem on my first flight, had to keep stick forward in level flight. Shortened up the rod ends and now it's fixed.



Frank Miles <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> wrote:  



Last fall I purchased a mdl. three and we are now getting around to trying

to fly it. Among the problems that we have encountered is that in level

flight there is an extreme back pressure on the stick. What would be the

best guess of the group is the problem? I have read that on approach there

should be a natural forward pressure but we find it to be more neutral than

anything. Frank



Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

		

---------------------------------

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Frank,



Are you saying you're having to hold back pressure to 

keep the nose up in level flight?  If so, lower the 

leading edge of the horiz. stab a notch or feed in 

some flaperon to see if you can trim out the nosedown 

tendency.



Regards,



Ted



--- Original Message ---

From: "Frank  Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o 

stick



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Last fall I purchased a mdl. three and we are now 

getting around to trying
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  to fly it. Among the problems that we have 

encountered is that in level
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  flight there is an extreme back pressure on the 

stick. What would be the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  best guess of the group is the problem? I have read 

that on approach there
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  should be a natural forward pressure but we find it 

to be more neutral than
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  anything. Frank

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Marco,



Adjusting the elevator push/pull will only change the 

position of the stick hands-off.  It won't change the 

trim...



Regards,



Ted

--- Original Message ---

From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitfox lll back presssure o 

stick



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Could be a simple rigging problem. Is your elevator 

approximately neutral when the stick is?  If not, I'd 
	


start by adjusting the rod ends for elevator push 

tube. I had the opposite problem on my first flight, 

had to keep stick forward in level flight. Shortened 

up the rod ends and now it's fixed.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Frank Miles <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net> wrote:  -

-> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Frank Miles" 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

Last fall I purchased a mdl. three and we are now 

getting around to trying
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  to fly it. Among the problems that we have 

encountered is that in level
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  flight there is an extreme back pressure on the 

stick. What would be the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  best guess of the group is the problem? I have read 

that on approach there
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  should be a natural forward pressure but we find it 

to be more neutral than
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  anything. Frank



Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

		

---------------------------------



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f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearw
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

To clarify, I have to push forward. The natural pressure is for it to push

back and want to climb. I have not tried to correct with the flap control.

May be the answer? I also wants to roll right. We have adjust the wing to

try to correct this. Have not flown it since the adjustment so don't know if

that worked.



--

flier(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Ok, it's forward pressure :

)



The flaperons probably aren't gonna correct that.  They pitch the nose down.



You'll need to move your horiz stab up a notch or so.  The roll may be

corrected with the wing wash-out.



Regards,



Ted



--

kitfox91je(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Frank..sorry i dont check all these messages anymore since i sold 91JE to 

you but i should respond to your notes about the plane.  I cant be sure that 

something didn't come out of rig that long on the trailer but i'm assuming 

the airplane still flies as given.  If so...don't change a thing.



Adjusting the flap lever ..pulling it up will lower your pitch.  You will 

find that it also will increase lift...and therefore isn't the best trim 

system anyones ever come up with.  However, You shouldn't be feeling any 

"extreme" pressures on the stick.  Flying with your fingertips and a little 

forward pressure though might be needed at higher end cruise speeds.  At 

approach speed you'll have to hold the nose up with backpressure...standard 

for a fox3 as in the flying manual.



about the roll...remember that the earlier kitfoxes are closer to neutral 

stability and need more rudder coordination than certifieds.  That took me a 

little to get comfortable with...especially with a round cowling. You'll see 

that things will stay level with the rudder coordinated.  If you get 

together with some other foxers you'll see a lot of folks flying wing low.



Check out the ball, airspeed, pitch and flap lever first.  Its not going to 

feel like a 182 but you shouldn't be using more than light pressures to 

correct.  If not then best to have a look and see if something is bent.



Dan Johnson

[quote]From: "Frank  Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:21:27 -0700




<f.miles.tcp.833(at)clearwire.net>



To clarify, I have to push forward. The natural pressure is for it to push

back and want to climb. I have not tried to correct with the flap control.

May be the answer? I also wants to roll right. We have adjust the wing to

try to correct this. Have not flown it since the adjustment so don't know 

if

that worked.



--

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Well said, my KF 2 ( almost the same as a 3) felt a bit that way too, I  

added a small trim tab to each elevator so I can fly hands off.....  

 

Enjoy....

 

Dave

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

On Apr 12, 2006, at 2:21 AM, Frank Miles wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I also wants to roll right. We have adjust the wing to try to correct 

 this


	


My model 3 also wants to roll right. I haven't adjusted the wing but 

put a little aluminium plate on the left flaperon, as a trim. It works 

fine.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

both of "fliers" suggestions appear to make the nose pitch down as does holding forward stick.



During the first year, well past the Phase One test period, I tweaked the rig of the wings for dihedral and roll to obtain hands of stability.



With regard to pitch: an interaction between the angle of attack of the stabilizer and the amount of rudder required for coordinated turns. Initially, we had it set for less angle of attack to provide a "carving action in the turn".  As a result, measuring the angle of the flaperons upon landing showed that 11 degrees flap was required for straight and level at cruise (90ish) speed.  When the stabilizer was raised to the top notch trim of the flaperon was zero at cruise (now closer to 100mph).  But a more conscious control input of rudder was required, all of which we deemed to be preferred.



With the addition of fairings on the lift strut rod ends, joy struts, and stabilizer struts, and the elimination of carb heat in favor of separate filters we are now seeing 107mph/gps at 5200rpm.



The whole process of testing, thinking and adjusting, evaluating was very enjoyable.



John Kerr

Classic IV, 912UL

730 hours



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "flier" <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> 



[quote] 

 

 Ok, it's forward pressure : 

 ) 

 

 The flaperons probably aren't gonna correct that. They pitch the nose down. 

 

 You'll need to move your horiz stab up a notch or so. The roll may be 

 corrected with the wing wash-out. 

 

 Regards, 

 

 Ted 

 

 --

FLIER(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

Woops!  John just clearly pointed out my reversal 

below.



Pulling flaperons causes a pitch DOWN.  So, flaperons 

should work as trim if you're holding forward 

pressure.



Glad it's Wednesday...  :

)



Ted

--- Original Message ---

From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Kitfox lll back presssure o 

stick



 	  Quote: 	
		  

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

both of "fliers" suggestions appear to make the nose 

pitch down as does holding forward stick.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

During the first year, well past the Phase One test 

period, I tweaked the rig of the wings for dihedral 
	


and roll to obtain hands of stability.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

With regard to pitch: an interaction between the 

angle of attack of the stabilizer and the amount of 
	


rudder required for coordinated turns. Initially, we 

had it set for less angle of attack to provide 

a "carving action in the turn".  As a result, 

measuring the angle of the flaperons upon landing 

showed that 11 degrees flap was required for straight 

and level at cruise (90ish) speed.  When the 

stabilizer was raised to the top notch trim of the 

flaperon was zero at cruise (now closer to 100mph).  

But a more conscious control input of rudder was 

required, all of which we deemed to be preferred.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

With the addition of fairings on the lift strut rod 

ends, joy struts, and stabilizer struts, and the 
	


elimination of carb heat in favor of separate filters 

we are now seeing 107mph/gps at 5200rpm.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

The whole process of testing, thinking and 

adjusting, evaluating was very enjoyable.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

John Kerr

Classic IV, 912UL

730 hours



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "flier" <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> 



> 

> 

> Ok, it's forward pressure : 

> ) 

> 

> The flaperons probably aren't gonna correct that. 

They pitch the nose down. 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> You'll need to move your horiz stab up a notch or 

so. The roll may be 
	


[quote]> corrected with the wing wash-out. 

> 

> Regards, 

> 

> Ted 

> 

> --

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Kitfox lll back presssure o stick

 	  Quote: 	
		  Glad it's Wednesday... : 	




the best day of the week..... FLYday.



Hoping to get there one of these days.



do not archive

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

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