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by0ung(at)brigham.net
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 Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: galled threads |
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Question have any of you had the coolant adapter that screws into the
bottom of the heads leak?
When I visited with LEAF I was told that he had not heard of it=85. But
on my 912 I have had 2 of them leak, so I bought a tube of the locktite
648 and proceeded with removing them=85 I was also told that to get the
locktite to let go to get the part out that I would have to get it to
around 400 deg. I could turn these with my thumb and fingers cold=85..
anyway I removed the parts and cleaned the old locktite off them and
proceeded to twist it into in order to check the fit and know how many turns
it would take to reinstall it properly. Not being a tapered thread it
turned in extremely easy, and it turned in 1 =BD more turns than it took to
get it out. So while lining it back up to double check the turns I started
to remove it when things went bad=85 the aluminum somehow got a all balled up
and seized. The threads on the coolant adapter were destroyed and the first
thread in the head is bad. If I put in a tap to clean out the threads
and things go bad I may end up with a new head=85..
Big Question??? Does anyone know of a collapsible tap that can be inserted
into the head, expanded out to fit the good threads in the bottom part of
the hole and clean out the bad threads while removing the tap? I am not
well versed in metric so the best I can tell you is I think it is a 18 mm
size fitting with aprox 24 threads per inch=85 sorry I don=92t have a metric
thread counter.
Boyd Young
Grounded mk III trying to get ready for MV
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: galled threads |
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Years ago as a newbie in a Honda motorcycle shop, I cleaned some sealant
off the threads of a large diameter aluminum Honda tappet cover which
screwed into the aluminum head on a Honda Super 90. Forgot to reoil or
lube anything and screwed the cover back into the head just like you did
with your Rotax adapter. It seized and had to be destroyed to get it out
of the head. I used a dental pick, and broke the tip off a triangular
needle file to make the rest of the file into a tool to scrape and clean
the threads in the head. But I was poor then, there is probably a better
way, however the dental pick/tedious approach can be made to work. Make
sure you can see clearly exactly what it is that you are doing, or don't
do it. You may not have that option. And you will probably get a better
suggestion than this one.
Real moral to the story: degreasing or cleaning two aluminum parts and
then screwing them together un-lubed is almost as good as welding them
together.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
boyd wrote:
| Quote: |
<snip>
anyway I removed the parts and cleaned the old locktite off them and
proceeded to twist it <snip> So while lining it back up to double check the turns I started to remove it when things went bad. the aluminum somehow got a all balled up
and seized. The threads on the coolant adapter were destroyed and the first
thread in the head is bad.<snip>
Boyd Young
Grounded mk III trying to get ready for MV
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: galled threads |
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At 08:32 AM 4/11/06 -0600, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Question have any of you had the coolant adapter that screws into the
bottom of the heads leak?
...................
|
| Quote: | Big Question??? Does anyone know of a collapsible tap that can be inserted
into the head, expanded out to fit the good threads in the bottom part of
the hole and clean out the bad threads while removing the tap? I am not
well versed in metric so the best I can tell you is I think it is a 18 mm
size fitting with aprox 24 threads per inch=85 sorry I don=92t have a metric
thread counter.
Boyd Young
Grounded mk III trying to get ready for MV
|
Boyd,
It looks like you need to insert a helicoil. The advantage of a helicoil is
that you an tap out to a larger size, screw in the insert and use the
original or replacement male threaded part. The advantage is that you do
not have to throw away the heads. They are made from stainless steel so
galling it not a problem.
Check out McMasters at:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
and put the words "helicoil" in the "Find" box. From there you should be
able to find what you need.
If you do not want to tackle this on your own, check out some motorcycle
repair shops. They would probably do it for you and a reasonable cost.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: galled threads |
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The helicoil is a great idea, and I've had excellent results with them in
many applications. Just to keep the record straight, tho', stainless to
stainless will gall just as badly as aluminum to aluminum, if not worse.
You MUST lubricate those threads. Been there, done that, and done my share
of cussing over it. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
---
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_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
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Steven Green
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: galled threads |
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Boyd,
If it is just the last thread or two it should be salvagable. Richard's
method may be a little slow but will give good results. As for the metric
threads they are measured peak to peak so 24 per inch would be real close to
2mm pitch. 18 X 2
Steven
I am not well versed in metric so the best I can tell you is I think it
is a 18 mm
| Quote: | size fitting with aprox 24 threads per inch=85 sorry I don=92t have a
metric
|
| Quote: | thread counter.
Boyd Young
Grounded mk III trying to get ready for MV
|
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Steven Green |
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:46 am Post subject: galled threads |
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I've been a machinist and inspector in the aircraft industry for 34 years. I
try never to use heli-coils for the simple reason that you must seat them
before they can be checked to conform to the thread standard for which they
are intended. If you get it wrong they are a bearcat to dig out and re-do. A
much better alternative is Time-Serts (www.timesert.com). Rather than a coil
of shaped wire, Time-Serts are a machined insert with a tapered outer thread
and use a mandrel to lock them into place. How good are they? I've had them
in the short side of my Shovelhead Harley heads (modified for two plugs per
head) for 13 years and they are as solid today as the day I installed them.
Give the folks at Time Sert a call and ask them about your application. If
you decide to use them, I'm sure you will be very pleased with the results.
On 4/11/06, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com> wrote:
[quote]
The helicoil is a great idea, and I've had excellent results with them in
many applications. Just to keep the record straight, tho', stainless to
stainless will gall just as badly as aluminum to aluminum, if not worse.
You MUST lubricate those threads. Been there, done that, and done my
share
of cussing over it. Lar.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
---
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: galled threads |
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Although not unique in design they look like a good product.
They should, however, employ a better proofreader for their
web page. How do you pronounce" notificition"?
Competition is good.
-BB, grinding away in preparation for some summer flying.
do not archive
On 12, Apr 2006, at 3:46 PM, Richard Girard wrote:
[quote]
I've been a machinist and inspector in the aircraft industry for 34
years. I
try never to use heli-coils for the simple reason that you must seat
them
before they can be checked to conform to the thread standard for which
they
are intended. If you get it wrong they are a bearcat to dig out and
re-do. A
much better alternative is Time-Serts (www.timesert.com). Rather than
a coil
of shaped wire, Time-Serts are a machined insert with a tapered outer
thread
and use a mandrel to lock them into place. How good are they? I've had
them
in the short side of my Shovelhead Harley heads (modified for two
plugs per
head) for 13 years and they are as solid today as the day I installed
them.
Give the folks at Time Sert a call and ask them about your
application. If
you decide to use them, I'm sure you will be very pleased with the
results.
On 4/11/06, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The helicoil is a great idea, and I've had excellent results with
> them in
> many applications. Just to keep the record straight, tho', stainless
> to
> stainless will gall just as badly as aluminum to aluminum, if not
> worse.
> You MUST lubricate those threads. Been there, done that, and done my
> share
> of cussing over it. Lar.
>
> Larry Bourne
> Palm Springs, CA
> Building Kolb Mk III
> N78LB Vamoose
> www.gogittum.com
>
> ---
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