Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

801 HS Rib Saga

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Hey guys, 

  

 I could use your expert opinion on this one.  I was a bone head and damaged one of my 801 Horizontal Stabilizer ribs to the point I needed to replace it.  So, I sent away for the 32 dollar rib with (gulp) 53 dollar shipping (wasn't expecting that one).  Anyway, I got the rib and installed it where the old one had been.  Went very smoothly.  I went to debur the edges and noticed a nice crack in the top rear flange (see first photo).  I'm positive I did not cause the crack because there are grinding marks that overlap the crack.  There are also some pretty deep tooling marks in that area as well.  The only type of pressure I've put on the rib was to clamp it in place, and my clamps would not reach that far anyway.  It looks to me that it cracked when it was bent in the form.

  

 Anyhoo, my question is this:  Can I remove the area I've marked with a sharpie in the second photo to remove the crack and continue the mission?  It's a Number 20 hole and edge distance is already an issue (5mm but should be 8mm) as you can see.  The hole on the other side of the flange has a 5mm edge distance as well.  The damaged rib I'm replacing had correct edge distances so this new rib has a shorter flange.  I emailed Zenair this morning but I think I missed them for the weekend.  I leave for Afghanistan in less than a week and would like to finish this part before I go.  Thanks in advance.

  

 Jake Crause

 Pooler, GA

Cracked_Rib.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

43.86 KB

Viewed:

6325 Time(s)

Cracked_Rib_2.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

40.85 KB

Viewed:

6324 Time(s)

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Jake, take the following comment with a grain of salt - or several grains, if you prefer.



There are two things I could do if this was my project: make another rib myself (with $85 I could make a stack of them!).

 Or, cut off the whole area around the rivet hole you show in the picture (a diagonal starting at the top right, where you painted it with the sharpie, going to the left and down), and add a new rivet to the left, with proper edge distance.

 

Good luck



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans



2009/11/6 Jake Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com (jakecrause(at)yahoo.com)>

[quote] Hey guys, 

  

 I could use your expert opinion on this one.  I was a bone head and damaged one of my 801 Horizontal Stabilizer ribs to the point I needed to replace it.  So, I sent away for the 32 dollar rib with (gulp) 53 dollar shipping (wasn't expecting that one).  Anyway, I got the rib and installed it where the old one had been.  Went very smoothly.  I went to debur the edges and noticed a nice crack in the top rear flange (see first photo).  I'm positive I did not cause the crack because there are grinding marks that overlap the crack.  There are also some pretty deep tooling marks in that area as well.  The only type of pressure I've put on the rib was to clamp it in place, and my clamps would not reach that far anyway.  It looks to me that it cracked when it was bent in the form.

   

 Anyhoo, my question is this:  Can I remove the area I've marked with a sharpie in the second photo to remove the crack and continue the mission?  It's a Number 20 hole and edge distance is already an issue (5mm but should be 8mm) as you can see.  The hole on the other side of the flange has a 5mm edge distance as well.  The damaged rib I'm replacing had correct edge distances so this new rib has a shorter flange.  I emailed Zenair this morning but I think I missed them for the weekend.  I leave for Afghanistan in less than a week and would like to finish this part before I go.  Thanks in advance.

   

 Jake Crause

 Pooler, GA

          

[b]

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

send it back,  that's crap.  Shouldn't  have been shipped.

  

 John

 [quote]   ---

klondike(at)megalink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Jake-- How far are you into your project?   If just starting, you  should learn to make your own replacement parts, a lot cheaper and saves a lot  of time and frustration.  

 Fritz--- do not archive

 [quote]   ---

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I would consider sending it back but I'm on a deadline so a fix would be better.  A fix like Carlos mentioned sounds like a good plan.  What do you think about cutting away just enough of the crack to get rid of it - Then add an L bracket on the inside of the flange that is long enough to have the proper edge distance using the same holes?  I would rivet the L bracket to the web with the same number of holes and spacing as used on the flange and spar.

  

 Jake Crause

 Pooler, Ga

         [quote][b]

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Not too far into it.  My rudder is complete and I'm just getting ready to finish the Horizontal Stab.  I can't argue with you on that one Fritz.  I've been looking around locally to find 6061 but have come up empty handed.  With Gulfstream 5 miles from my house you would think I could find some.  Everyone I've talked to seems to get it shipped in.      

   From: fritz <klondike(at)megalink.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:07:09 PM

Subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga

 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   Jake-- How far are you into your project?   If just starting, you should learn to make your own replacement parts, a lot cheaper and saves a lot of time and frustration.  

 Fritz--- do not archive

         [quote][b]

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Jake, I'm not sure how far away it is from you but Aircraft Spruce is in Peachtree City, GA.  I'm sure they have lost of 6061 in stock



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do Not Archive



--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Jake Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Jake Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com>

 Subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Received: Friday, November 6, 2009, 8:04 PM

 Not too far into it. 

 My rudder is complete and I'm just getting ready to

 finish the Horizontal Stab.  I can't argue with you

 on that one Fritz.  I've been looking around

 locally to find 6061 but have come up empty

 handed.  With Gulfstream 5 miles from my

 house you would think I could find some.  Everyone

 I've talked to seems to get it shipped

 in.      

 


	


      __________________________________________________________________

Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

It's 4 hours away, which is in striking distance if need be.   About the equivalent of 90 bucks in shipping (one meal and gas to get there).  Depending on what I need, it could be worth it.  Zenair occasionally ships items to AMD which is only a couple of hours north of me.  They have mentioned being able to save on shipping if I wait until they have a shipment going that way.  A friend of mine had his CH640 wings sent that way.

   From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 10:01:17 PM

Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 801 HS Rib Saga

--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)>

Jake, I'm not sure how far away it is from you but Aircraft Spruce is in Peachtree City, GA.  I'm sure they have lost of 6061 in stock

Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada

Do Not Archive

--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Jake Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com (jakecrause(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Jake  Crause <jakecrause(at)yahoo.com (jakecrause(at)yahoo.com)>

 Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: 801 HS Rib Saga

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)

 Received: Friday, November 6, 2009, 8:04 PM

 Not too far into it. 

 My rudder is complete and I'm just getting ready to

 finish the Horizontal Stab.  I can't argue with you

 on that one Fritz.  I've been looking around

 locally to find 6061 but have come up empty

 handed.  With Gulfstream 5 miles from my

 house you would think I could find some.  Everyone

 I've talked to seems to get it shipped

 in.      

       __________________________________________________________________

Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ * The Builder's Bookstore wwbsp;                     ========================

         [quote][b]

cicrn(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

6061 T6 is pretty common. Often used when fabricating aluminum service truck bodies, semi trailers, etc. Thickness (or lack thereof) may be a problem though. As a scratch builder, it is also easy for me to say, Get some material to re-fabricate parts, you will need it. I agree, it will be worthwhile to learn the skills to fabricate parts. Otherwise the project will take longer, waiting for parts and will cost more. Do the 801 plans give enough detail?



BTW That piece does look poor.

Joe



On 6-Nov-09, at 7:04 PM, Jake Crause wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Not too far into it.  My rudder is complete and I'm just getting ready to finish the Horizontal Stab.  I can't argue with you on that one Fritz.  I've been looking around locally to find 6061 but have come up empty handed.  With Gulfstream 5 miles from my house you would think I could find some.  Everyone I've talked to seems to get it shipped in.     



From: fritz <klondike(at)megalink.net (klondike(at)megalink.net)>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:07:09 PM

Subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga



Jake-- How far are you into your project?   If just starting, you should learn to make your own replacement parts, a lot cheaper and saves a lot of time and frustration. 

Fritz--- do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	
	


 [quote][b]

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

The 801 drawings do not give any detail on part dimensions.  I would need to reverse engineer them.  Not rocket science but more of an undertaking than if I had templates.

  

 I've had trouble with several parts since the start of this build.  Only with holes being drilled off-set from where they should be, never with actual damage to the part.  For instance, on the rudder spar, the lines of pre-drilled holes were several mm to one side all the way along the spar.  My elevator skin had holes drilled closer to the edge on one side than the other with edge distance less that was needed.  The company came up with an acceptable solution but I ended up crimping the leading edge when handling it, so I'll buy another skin before moving forward.  Several parts were replaced early on by the good folks down at Flight Crafters in Florida.  I purchased my tail kit through them and they dealt with Zeniar to replace the parts.  Since then I've talked directly with Zenair on several occasions and they have been nothing but helpful on the phone and email.  I realize the  kit production was moved from Zenith in Missouri to Zenair in Canada recently and I'm chocking these early problems up to growing pains.

  

 One thing I would like to stress is I'm not unhappy with the 801.  I understand that building your own airplane is an exercise in patience and reasoning.  We need to keep one eye in the AC43.13 and one eye on what we're told on this list and by the company.  I don't expect everything to go together perfectly and if the company can come up with an acceptable and strong solution to a problem with a part they sent me, or a screw up I've made, I'm open to it.  Thanks again for the support guys, I appreciate it.    

  

 Jake Crause

 Pooler, Ga    



 

   From: Joe Harrington <cicrn(at)telus.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 11:28:23 PM

Subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga



6061 T6 is pretty common. Often used when fabricating aluminum service truck bodies, semi trailers, etc. Thickness (or lack thereof) may be a problem though. As a scratch builder, it is also easy for me to say, Get some material to re-fabricate parts, you will need it. I agree, it will be worthwhile to learn the skills to fabricate parts. Otherwise the project will take longer, waiting for parts and will cost more. Do the 801 plans give enough detail?  



 BTW That piece does look poor.

 



 Joe

 

  On 6-Nov-09, at 7:04 PM, Jake Crause wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    Not too far into it.  My rudder is complete and I'm just getting ready to finish the Horizontal Stab.  I can't argue with you on that one Fritz.  I've been looking around locally to find 6061 but have come up empty handed.  With Gulfstream 5 miles from my house you would think I could find some.  Everyone I've talked to seems to get it shipped in.     

 

   From: fritz <klondike(at)megalink.net (klondike(at)megalink.net)>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:07:09 PM

Subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga



 Jake-- How far are you into your project?   If just starting, you should learn to make your own replacement parts, a lot cheaper and saves a lot of time and frustration. 

 Fritz--- do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		      href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com  href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com  href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com    	
homebuilthelp.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.comr generous support! 

igator?Zenith701801-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronitp://forums.matronics.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://forums.ma===================    	




         [quote][b]

ricklach

Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 127
Location: Kernville, Calif.

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga

Jake,



If you havenâ€™t gotten one yet you should get the FAA Publication 43.13-2B, Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Alterations. Itâ€™s the bible for A&P mechanics to do repair and maintenance on certified aircraft. In it you should find information for acceptable repair methods for sheet metal and anything else you might find in aircraft. If you canâ€™t find it at your local pilot shop you can get it at Aircraft Spruce or Sportys. This is a 2-inch thick repair and maintenance bible for aircraft that everyone building an airplane should have on the bench when they are working on the project.



Rick

_________________
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743

jakecrause(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: 801 HS Rib Saga

Yep, I sure do have it and have been looking to it for guidance for this problem.  I've used it for some other issues I haven't brought to the lists attention.  It's a great resource.  A requirement really.  

Jake 

    From: ricklach <rick(at)ravenaviation.us>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, November 8, 2009 11:15:48 AM

Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: 801 HS Rib Saga

--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ricklach" <rick(at)ravenaviation.us (rick(at)ravenaviation.us)>

Jake,

If you havenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t gotten one yet you should get the FAA Publication 43.13-2B, Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Alterations. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the bible for A&P mechanics to do repair and maintenance on certified aircraft. In it you should find information for acceptable repair methods for sheet metal and anything else you might find in aircraft. If you canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t find it at  your local pilot shop you can get it at Aircraft Spruce or Sportys. This is a 2-inch thick repair and maintenance bible for aircraft that everyone building an airplane should have on the bench when they are working on the project.

Rick

--------

701Driver

N35 26.700,  W118 16.743

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=271702#271702

[b]wwtp://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com

_bsp;                     ========================

           [quote][b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum