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The real work of the update on the CH601XL

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mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: The real work of the update on the CH601XL

I have been looking at the drawings posted by Zenith. It would appear that to implement these changes  one must remove all the rivets from the top of the wings and effectively completely dis-assemble the center consul and wing spar area in the fuselage.  While building the plane was interesting, doing it half again might be a bit much. It looks like this is a 150-200 hour "update" assuming no problems are encountered. This significantly dwarfs the cost of any kit.



AMD says this is to be done by a licensed mechanic on their planes. That would be at least a $20K update. Am I missing something?



If not, might an engine and radios be worth anything?

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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: The real work of the update on the CH601XL

Hi Mike,



I agree with your basic logic, but I think you have overestimated the 

time to do the updates.  Of course, we haven't yet seen all the 

updates, so we are both a bit premature.



If you have assembled this stuff yourself, and get all the materials 

and parts in their expected condition from ZAC, I think you could do 

all this stuff in a week or two of full time effort.  If you haven't 

yet reached this point in construction then the changes add even less 

effort.  Of course, scratch builders will need more time to obtain 

materials and prepare parts similar to the factory kit parts.



The people I feel the most empathy for are the ones who have 

purchased an already built experimental Zodiac XL.  They will have 

few great choices about how to get the changes done.



The wing/carry through/seat modifications shown in the posted 

drawings do involve removing a lot of rivets and replacing them along 

with additional parts.  The alignment, drilling, deburring, and other 

steps on existing parts are already done and don't get changed.  Once 

you get some practice, drilling out these rivets only takes a few 

seconds, maybe a minute, each.



For anyone who wants my technique, I drill rivets just skin deep 

starting with #40 drill.  Then I continue with #30 and #20 if needed 

until the head pops off.  Then it is just a matter of removing the 

stem from the hole with either the appropriate drill or a punch and 

mallet.  It really is faster to do then describe if you don't count 

time for changing drill bits.  If you do a whole bunch of rivets at 

once then the drill changing time becomes trivial.  The other little 

pointer is after you get all the rivets removed from the skin you 

might want to find all the remains and remove them from the wing 

before reclosing it.



For a mechanic who is not familiar with this construction method and 

doesn't have the special tools like the rivet setter this could 

indeed take 200 or more hours.  Just a wild guess on my part: This 

might justify returning the plane to AMD for modifications.  That may 

be what the writers of the FAA document had in mind when they 

mentioned ferry permits.



One part of this you didn't include (I think) is possibly repainting 

the wings.  This could indeed be a big expense.



Paul

At 08:25 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have been looking at the drawings posted by Zenith. It would 

appear that to implement these changes  one must remove all the 

rivets from the top of the wings and effectively completely 

dis-assemble the center consul and wing spar area in the 

fuselage.  While building the plane was interesting, doing it half 

again might be a bit much. It looks like this is a 150-200 hour 

"update" assuming no problems are encountered. This significantly 

dwarfs the cost of any kit.



AMD says this is to be done by a licensed mechanic on their planes. 

That would be at least a $20K update. Am I missing something?



If not, might an engine and radios be worth anything?



--------

Mark Hubelbank

N708HU

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jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: The real work of the update on the CH601XL

On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 08:49:41AM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I agree with your basic logic, but I think you have overestimated the time 

 to do the updates.  Of course, we haven't yet seen all the updates, so we 

 are both a bit premature.


	


I'm told to expect about 80 hours A&P labor to do the upgrade for my

airplane. AMD is very strongly recommending that the upgrade be done at the

factory for AMD aircraft.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

mhubel

Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Re: The real work of the update on the CH601XL

I figure one takes any personal estimate and double it to get to reality. That is how I got 200 hours.



Even assuming we do all this. will anyone write insurance for it after? That is not at all clear.



Anyone want an engine, and radios with a big metal bracket attached?

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com

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