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Mode S transponders

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DCorbett(at)corbettfarms.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

Please could our friends in the Netherlands give us (in UK) an update as to whether aircraft flying below 1200 ft under the Amsterdam TMA are still being required to turn their Mode S transponders off whilst in the relevant airspace? This request is on behalf of the UK General Aviation Safety Council.  

   

Many thanks,  

   

David  

G-BZAM  

      [quote][b]

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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

David Corbett wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Please could our friends in the Netherlands give us (in UK) an update as

 to whether aircraft flying below 1200 ft under the Amsterdam TMA are

 still being required to turn their Mode S transponders off whilst in the

 relevant airspace? This request is on behalf of the UK General Aviation

 Safety Council.


	


Yes, this is still the case. 

And yes, it is still mandatory for us to carry a mode-S transponder on

board. 

I have hold it off as long as possible, but I just bought an expensive

mode-S transponder which I have to turn off over half the country.



I also had to buy an expensive 406 MHz ELT (PLB is not allowed as an

alternative), mandatory if you want to cross the boarder, although the

countries around us don't require it. The ELT is only mandatory for the

split second we are actually crossing the boarder, we don't need it

before reaching the boarder, and not after we have passed it.

Why we need it is a mystery, in this heavily populated country it is

impossible to crash your airplane without numerous people noticing it

and complaining about the damage it caused on their property.

Oh wait, we also have a lot of water around us! Too bad then that we

have to install a fixed ELT, with a mandatory switch on the instrument

panel and associated wiring, making it impossible to remove the ELT in a

hurry, so to guarantee that it will sink together with the airplane and

beep its silly signals to the fishes rather than to the satellites.



Well, there is also a good side to this country: Today I received the

first bunch of official documents for my airplane, never having had an

inspector nor a certified mechanic even in the neighbourhood of my

airplane. 



Big grin day is getting close. 



Frans

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Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

I suspect we will disagree on this Frans, but I think having an inspector

look at my aircraft is a good thing, rather than an imposition.  We are all

human and human beings are error prone.  A second pair of eyes is a valuable

contribution to a safe first flight.  Not too late to reconsider!



Regards



Brian Davies 



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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

Brian Davies wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I suspect we will disagree on this Frans, but I think having an inspector

 look at my aircraft is a good thing, rather than an imposition.  We are all

 human and human beings are error prone.  A second pair of eyes is a valuable

 contribution to a safe first flight.  Not too late to reconsider!


	


I do not disagree with you at all. In fact, I have already someone

invited to take a close look at the airplane, and I'm sure the test

pilot is going to do the same.



But if I read that in the UK you need to apply for a mod if you want to

make a small door on the empty space below your thighs, well, I'm very

glad that we don't have such interference here in the Netherlands. After

all, it is an experimental airplane, there should be some room for

builder modifications, especially if these modifications are unlikely to

affect any flight characteristics.

So, that is what I wanted to say, I'm glad that we Dutchies have some

freedom here for improvements on the airplane.



Frans

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Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

Yes, the mods approval system in the UK is far from satisfactory.  I

understand there is/was a proposal to create an experimental category in the

UK but I suspect this has been overtaken by EASA deliberations.  Watch out!

EASA may get to the Dutch in time!



Regards



Brian 



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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

Brian Davies wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Yes, the mods approval system in the UK is far from satisfactory.  I

 understand there is/was a proposal to create an experimental category in the

 UK but I suspect this has been overtaken by EASA deliberations.  Watch out!

 EASA may get to the Dutch in time!


	


I'm sure it will. That's one of the reasons I was a bit in a hurry to

get the airplane finished.  They used EASA to force us to invest in

mode-S transponders which we are not allowed to use, and useless ELT's.

I'm sure that in the near future homebuilding will be restricted to

whatever limitations EASA will come up with. I'm trusting however that

once an airplane is registered that they are not just taking that away

again. And even that of course is not for sure.



Frans

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: Mode S transponders

Hi! Frans.  

I understand both systems and also resent bureaucrats interfering but in this case safety is paramount. It would be fine for the flight characteristics to be unchanged .....BUT if the structural strength is compromised the ultimate characteristic is seriously likely to downwards!  

For instance the thigh areas , seat backs, tunnel, and bulkheads round the fuel tank are in the most highly stressed areas. In consequence any holes cover doors must convey adequate stresses from the rest of the plane.  

If William Mills were here (Bless him) he would countenance that without doubt by saying there are inspectors and inspectors ! Obviously if you are an engineer and have conducted adequate calculations to assure your test pilot then just fine.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison.      

   

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