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Part 5 is up on the zenith.aero site and I have questions

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psm(at)att.net
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Part 5 is up on the zenith.aero site and I have questions

Hi Larry,



I think it is premature to worry about installing the changes on home 

built planes now.



I understand ZAC is working very hard to put together a kit and 

instructions for us to use when installing the changes.  I also 

understand the information released so far as the AMD update is not 

complete.  It covers a number of changes but the stuff I have seen 

doesn't cover control system and aileron mass balance changes.  I 

don't know what else in the "Package" has been left out of the AMD 

package.  Remember the primary plan is for AMD owners to return their 

planes to the factory for upgrade.  For those who don't, there is 

still the requirement for licensed mechanics to do the changes.  The 

AMD package just isn't designed for home builder use.



Shirley (the gal in charge of nearly everything at ZAC including 

sales and answering the phone) informed me it would be several weeks 

before the upgrade kit was ready for distribution.  For my money and 

time, I think I will continue to build my next plane until the kit is in hand.



Paul

XL ready to order upgrade kit



P.S. On the solid rivet question, I suspect several RV builders in 

your local EAA chapter will be happy to help with the few rivets we 

need on the spars.  They have to install about 30,000 of those little 

things on an RV.  Failing that, the bolt option might work out better 

if you don't have equipment and experience with bucking rivets.  The 

obvious problem with bolts is the question someone raised a few days 

ago about inspecting the nuts to see they are still tight after the 

wing is closed up.

At 08:57 AM 11/14/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



The attachment of the new angle to the wing spar is up and now I'm curious.



The released drawings show 6-ZU-1-1 being attached by AN3 or AN4 

bolts yet the pics on segment 5 show solid rivets being used



Questions



1 Are solid rivets the way this is going to be done??  I have never 

driven a solid rivet and don't have any of the tools. With something 

as critical as the wing spar I'm not sure this is the correct place 

to learn this skill.



2. Can these rivets be set using a squeezer??  I could rent one of 

those and would feel better about the quality of my work here.



3. What happened to the bolt idea??  Why was it changed?? Just 

curious I'm not thinking anything bad is going on here.



I think the Zenith boys are making things a good as they can right 

now.  I'm very happy with the flow of info and whats going on so far.



It could have happened sooner but at least were moving now.



It appears that my decision NOT to rivet the top wing skins on was 

spot on, but I'm concerned about the seats.  The bottom edge of my 

seats is riveted in from the bottom, through the landing gear 

channel. Are we gonna have to drop the gear to remove the seat pan 

to work on the center section or will there be enough room to do the 

work with these still riveted at the back?



I got more but lets let these simmer for a bit



Larry Whitlow

601XL Jabiru 3300

It will fly  the only question is when

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lwhitlow

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Valparaiso Indiana

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Part 5 is up on the zenith.aero site and I have questi

Hi Paul



By the way thanks for all the useful info you have passed along in the past couple of weeks!!



I'm gonna have to disagree that its premature to be concerned about the home built planes now. I've been avoiding closing up areas that were likely to need changes (wings) and now that center section work is needed I have to stop in the cabin area and remove some parts to gain access. My time is important to me and without a timely delivery of the mod kit parts, I'm stopped from making progress. I can get useful work done, in prepping the areas that will be affected by the mods. I just want to make sure I'm working off of the best information available.



Paul, I don't think you are saying that Zenith is more concerned about the AMD planes. The AMD planes are no more important than mine or yours or anyone elses, and they will all require the same mods, so all of the how and why and changes will apply to everyone.  I don't think the guys at Zenith are worried about AMD and how it will get done. We should be all equal here. It would be a terrible move on Zenith's part to get parts and procedures to AMD ahead of getting them to the home builders. Home builders are the basis for Zenith to make the kits for the AMD planes. It's the same plane, we are all in the same boat, First come first serve.  I've got a Credit card ready as soon as Shirley will take it to get the mod parts here.



Besides I think the kit of mod parts is soon to come. Search You-Tube there's a video put up by Zenith of the mod parts, they just haven't linked  it to the blog yet.  I'm happy with their pace here, but notes as they go along with the prototype mods would be great.  It helps those of us who want to keep moving understand the issues we are going to face and to make arrangements to get this mandatory work done.  My goal has always been to get this bird to Oshkosh in 2010 and that is still within reach easily, I just want to keep making progress.



And the rivet question, My EAA chapter here is oddly absent RV builders. There might be one I think but.....   ITs mostly the Rag and tube or Rag and wood crowd (Purists  ) around here  There's a glass or two and a few Zenith guys ( HD and HDS all flying! )  I'm the only metal and Zenith builder here. The guys are great and have been a great help but the metal crowd is not large here!!



I still cannot call this an upgrade. While I welcome the changes and expect a stronger airframe, Its not an upgrade if its required. Its a safety of flight modification, but no one wants to call it that.  I don't care if they call it cosmetic changes, just bend and cut some metal, make me some drawings and get it in a box with my name on it



Larry Whitlow

601XL

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chris Sinfield

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: what to do whilst waiting for the mods

ALL

Well as someone who is past the wings and fuse stage, I can tell you thee is still plenty to do whilst waiting

Spend a couple of weeks doing your Electrical / wiring diagrams , start running wires, start making the seats and covers. That will take a few weeks

Chris

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lwhitlow

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Valparaiso Indiana

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: what to do whilst waiting for the mods

Ohh Kind sir



All i have left in the interior is the seats  Electrical is 99% done  I do have to cut install and rig the control cables  but they would be in the way right now with the center section mod so I'll hold on those.  I'm gonna pull the sticks and the center section console tomorrow to start opening up the area.



I was closer to the finish line but now I'm still close its just moved a little farther down the road

Larry 

Very Optimistic



 	  chris Sinfield wrote: 	
		  ALL

Well as someone who is past the wings and fuse stage, I can tell you thee is still plenty to do whilst waiting

Spend a couple of weeks doing your Electrical / wiring diagrams , start running wires, start making the seats and covers. That will take a few weeks

Chris

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