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zeus45601(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: Financing the CH-801 |
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I think this message may be dismissed as irrelevant by a lot of you veteran pilots and builders, who build their planes from scratch finding inexpensive alternative engines to put in your plane, and have just essential avionics. You may have a lot of free cash and time to build your planes in other cases. I do commend your ingenuity and frugal know how to those who can accomplish their goals on less money. But has anyone looked into financing major components on your plane once the airframe has been completed. I for one plan to build the CH-801 airframe with spare cash (does anyone really have spare cash?) I save without taking out a loan and build each section slowly, one section at a time until finished. This may take a few years as I rarely have spare cash and time is always a factor. I may be disillusioned and you guys who have actually built your planes may be chuckling. But has anyone gone as far as to try to find financial backing/loans for other major components such as a new engine or glass panel avionics? For guys like me, could I get some ideas as to how you did it or plan to do? The engines and glass avionics ain’t cheap and I would like to know if you can get a loan for these other things other than maxing out credit cards (lordy, not the way to go I would think at their interest rates). Most institutions won’t give you a loan on a kitplane as there is nothing to show for it until it is finished and certified. I plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a couple years, but was shocked to see on their website the final cost of the engine and all the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tanks, superchargers, turbo… etc. http://www.deltahawkengines.com/Firewall%20prices.shtml coming to a total of $62,500. That’s not including propeller. Holy cow! When I was looking at engines I was thinking maybe $25,000 to $30,000 for a brand new engine, but apparently all the supporting parts add up significantly. When building my avionics panel using a program called X-Panel 5000, I’m looking at about another $25,000 and that’s something I don’t want to skimp on. How are you folks, who like me, who are not particularly rich, going to get those other big money items? If you’re independently wealth this isn’t an issue.
Jay Parker
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jgswartout(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: Financing the CH-801 |
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Jay, when I started my CH-801, I wanted the DeltaHawk diesel 200 hp, too. Its projected cost, at the time, "in a couple of years," was $19,000. I got a delivery position (free) and went about building my airplane. Oh, yeah, that was -- let's see -- ten years ago? When the projected price, "in a couple of years" reached $30,000 for the DeltaHawk, I started thinking about the soon-to-be-produced Jabiru 5100 "180 hp" engine. The introductory price (before the first one rolled off the assembly line) was around $13,800. Such a deal. In the event, it turned out to be a 170 hp engine, I had some concerns about static cooling, and it wasn't clear that I could use a large diameter propeller (80" or so), so I abandoned that idea. After they went into production, it seems to me the price jumped to around $19,000. In the end (well, about 4 years ago) I decided not to screw around with an unproven engine, since I'm going to fly my bush plane in the bush, and bought a Teledyne Mattituck TMX O-360 carbureted ECI kit engine, which was about $18,000 then without magnetos--since my one nod to newfangled technology is to install Emag's P-mags. Incidentally, the plane isn't done yet, but it is about done. Just hook up and route the engine wires, fit the cowl, fit the glass, wire up the panel, slap a propeller on it, and put some seats in it, and it's done (yes, it's already painted). Oh, and build the new (2004?) wider-span horizontal tail. Personally, I wouldn't borrow money to finance parts. These things can take time, and compound interest doesn't lower the cost  . I bought my engine when I did because things were going so well (danger signal) I thought I'd need it imminently. I've got about $7,000 in my completely adequate day VFR panel, complete with Dynon glass and a backup altimeter and airspeed. There are cheaper ways to get flying than buying a new engine. Build within your budget. (My $0.02)
John
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Jay Parker <zeus45601(at)yahoo.com (zeus45601(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I think this message may be dismissed as irrelevant by a lot of you veteran pilots and builders, who build their planes from scratch finding inexpensive alternative engines to put in your plane, and have just essential avionics. You may have a lot of free cash and time to build your planes in other cases. I do commend your ingenuity and frugal know how to those who can accomplish their goals on less money. But has anyone looked into financing major components on your plane once the airframe has been completed. I for one plan to build the CH-801 airframe with spare cash (does anyone really have spare cash?) I save without taking out a loan and build each section slowly, one section at a time until finished. This may take a few years as I rarely have spare cash and time is always a factor. I may be disillusioned and you guys who have actually built your planes may be chuckling. But has anyone gone as far as to try to find financial backing/loans for other major components such as a new engine or glass panel avionics? For guys like me, could I get some ideas as to how you did it or plan to do? The engines and glass avionics ain’t cheap and I would like to know if you can get a loan for these other things other than maxing out credit cards (lordy, not the way to go I would think at their interest rates). Most institutions won’t give you a loan on a kitplane as there is nothing to show for it until it is finished and certified. I plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a couple years, but was shocked to see on their website the final cost of the engine and all the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tanks, superchargers, turbo… etc. http://www.deltahawkengines.com/Firewall%20prices.shtml coming to a total of $62,500. That’s not including propeller. Holy cow! When I was looking at engines I was thinking maybe $25,000 to $30,000 for a brand new engine, but apparently all the supporting parts add up significantly. When building my avionics panel using a program called X-Panel 5000, I’m looking at about another $25,000 and that’s something I don’t want to skimp on. How are you folks, who like me, who are not particularly rich, going to get those other big money items? If you’re independently wealth this isn’t an issue.
Jay Parker
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: Financing the CH-801 |
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I will be as polite as possible. I am not rich. in fact far from it, but every penny I have, I earned. Proper planning with your money and living within your means goes a long toward being successful with any project. Too often we see people who have to be seen with the 'latest/greatest/yada yada yada. Most if not all end up going belly up and hard working honest citizens eat their abusive spending habits through higher prices on items, higher credit fees and taxes. I would love to have a Gulfstream G-5 to fly to my private island and cruise around in a 300' boat. Ain't gonna happen <G>. If you can't buy the whole kit outright and up front Zenith offers componants so you can pay as you go. As for the Delta hawk, I was one of their first customers who offered them a firm purchase commitment and they were going to deliver my engine in April 2001. I even offered to to all the R&D to get it to fit in an 801 but the rudely told me I didn't have the skills to engineer a firewall forward package. You know the rest of the story by now. Remember................... If there is a will, there is a way... How honest are you with yourself?
do not archive.
Tailwinds
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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John Bolding
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: Financing the CH-801 |
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No knowledge of the Deltahawk other than seeing it at Osh a few times BUT it reminds me of the saga of the DynaCam that I am very familiar with from as far back as the early 70's.
Was just about to invest in the company when my Dad's broker ( a Glasair builder) did some research and .... well the story is too long as it's still going on today and there are no airplanes flying around with Dynacams in them.
Put in a Lycoming, Continental or Franklin until one of the new diesels gets some time on them,
assume you are aware of http://www.dieselair.com/ .if not it will get you all caught up on the state of EVERY diesel slated for aircraft.
[quote]
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jay Parker <zeus45601(at)yahoo.com>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Financing the CH-801
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 06:09:05 -0800 (PST)
I plan to get a 200 hp DeltaHawk Diesel engine once certified in a couple years, but was shocked to see on their website the final cost of the engine and all the supporting attachments: engine mount, oil and coolant tanks, superchargers, turbo etc.
Jay Parker
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zeus45601(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: Financing the CH-801 |
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Thanks for the advice. DeltaHawk compared their engine to the Lycoming IO 360 and said it was cheaper than that after you put on all the extra parts (firewall forward). I'm still a couple years off from buying an engine and hopefully DH will get certified and perhaps I'll win the lottery.
--- On Mon, 11/16/09, John Bolding <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net> wrote:
[quote]
From: John Bolding <jnbolding1(at)teleshare.net>
Subject: Re: Financing the CH-801
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 11:50 AM
No knowledge of the Deltahawk other than seeing it at Osh a few times BUT it reminds me of the saga of the DynaCam that I am very familiar with from as far back as the early 70's.
Was just about to invest in the company when my Dad's broker ( a Glasair builder) did some research and .... well the story is too long as it's still going on today and there are no airplanes flying around with Dynacams in them.
Put in a Lycoming, Continental or Franklin until one of the new diesels gets some time on them,
assume you are aware of http://www.dieselair.com/ ..if not it will get you all caught up on the state of EVERY diesel slated for aircraft.
[quote]
--------
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