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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Hi all
A couple of questions
1) Where do I find torque values for the #6 structural screws that I have used to attach the rudder stops to the lower rudder hinge?
2) I have just started the rudder and will be adding electric rudder trim. Before I make some serious cuts in the rudder skin I want to do some research into how the rudder is balanced, and thus make a few calculations. Where are the instructions about how the rudder is balanced? I only have the empanage kit home at present and I can't find anything regarding balancing.
3) When I rivetted the lower rudder hinge onto the VS rear spar it seems the rivets called out by Vans are a bit short. Did anyone else run into this? Also it seems some rivets are also too long. If the shop head is the proper diameter, does it matter if it's a little bit thicker?
Sorry for the neophyte type questions but I gotta get this right.
Thx, Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Hi Rick C
The torque ranges should be in the Standard Aircraft Handbook and AC43-13 Aircraft Inspection C Repair and Alteration. If you don't have copies of these they are very good and useful guides to have on hand.
As for rudder balancing C the plans are a little sparse. There are some ranges in the finishing kit's instructions. But it only gives ranges. If you know an A&P with a set of Cessna repair manuals threre is a section in their manual that outlines how to build a balancing arm and jig. Also discusses how to use it. Keep in mind that when you paint it will effect the balance as well.
Through out the project you will find some rivets called out in the plans are off in length. Just use your rivet gauge before driving if a rivet is in question. As the project progresses you will find may times by eyeing a rivet you will know if it is too ling or short. Then just trade it out for the right length. As for the shop head size the two reference books mentioned above should take about the min/max range for rivet head size.
Congratulation on your project & enjoy the build C
Vern Smith (#324 Finishing?)
From: jrlark(at)bmts.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder etc
Date: Sun C 15 Nov 2009 19:06:12 -0500
Hi all
A couple of questions
1) Where do I find torque values for the #6 structural screws that I have used to attach the rudder stops to the lower rudder hinge?
2) I have just started the rudder and will be adding electric rudder trim. Before I make some serious cuts in the rudder skin I want to do some research into how the rudder is balanced C and thus make a few calculations. Where are the instructions about how the rudder is balanced? I only have the empanage kit home at present and I can't find anything regarding balancing.
3) When I rivetted the lower rudder hinge onto the VS rear spar it seems the rivets called out by Vans are a bit short. Did anyone else run into this? Also it seems some rivets are also too long. If the shop head is the proper diameter C does it matter if it's a little bit thicker?
Sorry for the neophyte type questions but I gotta get this right.
Thx C Rick
#40956
Southampton C Ont
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. [quote][b]
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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Hi Vernon
I have searched through AC43-13 numerous times and can't find any torque values. I'll take another look. The Standard Aircraft Handbook is on my X-mas list.
I have been involved in balancing the rudder on my Cardinal so I will consult our maintenance guy.
I hate to ask stupid questions, but will anyway. I have a rivet gauge but didn't know how to use it. I get the feeling the little notches are to gauge the rivet length that sticks out before you form the shop head??
I wish I had asked that question before I riveted the rudder hinges onto the spar.
Thx for your advise.
Regards, Rick
[quote] ---
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Rick
If you go to this link, on page 5-13 you will get the torque values you need. Also on the Vans construction FAQS are torque values for fittings (as opposed to bolts).
http://vansaircraft.com/pdf/Section_5_R10.pdf
Don’t feel bad about the “oops” moments. We have all turned nice aluminum parts into scrap. I suspect that I have done more than my fair share.
The rivet gauge is used to measure the quality of the rivet AFTER it is set. The hole in the appropriate gauge measures whether or not the shop head is large enough. Ideally, the shop head should be just slightly too large to go into the hole. The notch measures whether or not the shop head is “high” enough. Ideally, the shop head should be just slightly higher than the notch.
You also want your shop ends to be circular, not slumped or malformed. I suggest you get a couple of pieces of scrap and set a bunch of rivets until you get the hang of it. After you have done a bunch, drill them out and do them again.
Setting rivets with a gun is a skill that takes practise. This is especially true of the AN470 rivets which can be a bit tricky especially when you start.
Cheers
Les
#40643
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: November-16-09 7:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Rudder etc
Hi Vernon
I have searched through AC43-13 numerous times and can't find any torque values. I'll take another look. The Standard Aircraft Handbook is on my X-mas list.
I have been involved in balancing the rudder on my Cardinal so I will consult our maintenance guy.
I hate to ask stupid questions, but will anyway. I have a rivet gauge but didn't know how to use it. I get the feeling the little notches are to gauge the rivet length that sticks out before you form the shop head??
I wish I had asked that question before I riveted the rudder hinges onto the spar.
Thx for your advise.
Regards, Rick
[quote]
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jrlark
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Hi Les
I did see that chart but I'm talking about #6-32 screws. I do expect the value to be close to a AN#3 bolt though.
I haven't had any badly driven rivets yet. I did get a couple of shop heads that turned out too thin primarliy because there wasn't enough rivet sticking out the back (or shop head side) before I drove them. What caught me by surprise was that Vans had a wrong length called out in the plans.
The gauge I'm talking about (sorry I wasn't very specific) I bought from Aircraft Tool Supply, part # RG032, which is called a "rivet length gauge". I also have the gauge you mention (RG031), to check the shop heads as well. After Vernons' response I think I figured the gauge out.
Thx for your response
Rick
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: Rudder etc |
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Hi Rick C
OK your first email caught me at work without any reference material. So the Standard Aircraft Handbook lists torque values down to an 8-32 which 12-15 inch pounds. But not the #6 screws sorry to miss lead you. I also checked Van's literature but they only go down to a AN3 (same as a 10-32.) The range for this is 20-25 inch pounds. I'm afraid this is as close as I have found.
There are no stupid questions! Just a learning curve we all go through. Basically the holes in the gauge are a go no-go test for the various sized rivets. The gauge hole will just fit over the driven shop head with no play from side to side. If it has play then it need a little more driving. If the rivet is slightly to big to fit in the hole that is OK. As for gauging the thickness C you are right that is what the little notch is for. The height of the notch represent the minimum head thickness required. Most likely after driving a few thousand rivet that you can just look at a rivet and know if it is under or over driven.
But your original question delt with how thick can a rivet head be. There is alot of info on what the perfect rivet should look like but few want to comment on what is good enough. The good news is there is a military spec sheet that cover this issue and Van's has it on there website the link is: http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm This reference has saved me many sleepless nights!
Enjoy C
Vern
From: jrlark(at)bmts.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rudder etc
Date: Mon C 16 Nov 2009 21:37:20 -0500
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.ecxhmmessage {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10pt;} Hi Vernon
I have searched through AC43-13 numerous times and can't find any torque values. I'll take another look. The Standard Aircraft Handbook is on my X-mas list.
I have been involved in balancing the rudder on my Cardinal so I will consult our maintenance guy.
I hate to ask stupid questions C but will anyway. I have a rivet gauge but didn't know how to use it. I get the feeling the little notches are to gauge the rivet length that sticks out before you form the shop head??
I wish I had asked that question before I riveted the rudder hinges onto the spar.
Thx for your advise.
Regards C Rick
[quote] ---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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